Synopsis of 21 dec chat?

[CapTVK]

Does anyone have a quick synopsis of what was discussed during this chat? I've seem to have missed it. Only thing I heared is that scenarios are certain (how and when?)

Anyone here who was there?

[Jodo Kast]

LOG FILE

Please post the log file from this discussion.

I want to read everything!! It will eventually be released, so the first person 'wins'.

[David Murray]

Personal highlights of mine include:

1. Fundamentalism government, plant nuclear weapon and plant disease espionage missions were all removed at the last moment by executive order because of the September 11 attacks

2. Trading units was removed because of AI exploit

Hmm...what else? Can't remember, I didn't pay much attention to anything else.

Oh yeah...

3. Firaxis are working on lots of new features for the editor.

Some good news, at least.

[Redstar]

so i was right...

"1. Fundamentalism government, plant nuclear weapon and plant disease espionage missions were all removed at the last moment by executive order because of the September 11 attacks "

it only made sense cause everything became so acutely sensitive.
A movie, which showed the NY skyline BEFORE sep 11, was shelved cause of sep 11.


as i said earlier tho this feature set, in paticular, is just too darn close to reality. In another 20 years you can put it back in.

[Xentropy]

Originally posted by David Murray
1. Fundamentalism government, plant nuclear weapon and plant disease espionage missions were all removed at the last moment by executive order because of the September 11 attacks

Omg I hope you're joking. That is SO lame. I hope they put them back in in a patch, maybe with some ini file pref. Something like IAmAPansyThatCantHandleAGameHavingTerrorism=1 that those of us who have the mental capacity to separate games from reality can set to 0 :P

Also hope they put unit trading back in for multiplayer. Allow unit trading with players, just not AIs or something. >shrugs<

[Harlan]

I can't believe the part about Fundamentalism is true, because I distinctly recall hearing that Fundamentalism wasn't in the game long before Sept. 11th. Can anyone double check some of those old news leaks?

Any specifics on what editing features are being worked on, and when we can start to actually use them?

[MarkG]

the log will be posted on sunday

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Harlan
I can't believe the part about Fundamentalism is true, because I distinctly recall hearing that Fundamentalism wasn't in the game long before Sept. 11th. Can anyone double check some of those old news leaks?

I also remember that from long ago, but Apolyton don't go that far back any more. (Tried to search)

[David Murray]

Well, Jeff admitted that fundamentalism and terrorist espionage missions were removed because Jeff Briggs ordered it "at the last minute" and when someone asked if it was because of Sep. 11, he said "yep".

And I sincerely hope it doesn't take 20 years before those things are added back it! Like I've said before, you can't make things better by forgetting that they ever existed! And I'm sure the vicims of the atrocities on Sept. 11th have better things to think about than whether or not Civ3 has fundamentalism in it, wouldn't you agree?

Anyway, all will become clear on Sunday when the log is released.

[Kolyana]

You guys have to remember - regarding the Sept 11th & Fundamentalism thing - that whilst you may be able to distinctly differentiate between a game and reallife, many non-gamers out there can't.

Unfortunately, we live in a society in which the minority often rules. To coin a stereo type: The church going women libbers politically correct brigade that have little else to do other than make other peoples lives a misery.

If Firaxis left this sort of stuff in the game, you can bet your bottom dollar that some bored soccer mom with a desire to be noticed, will boost her flagging ego with a crusade against the evil gaming community.

And, unfortunately, far too many idiots would listen.

I hate this about society, but it happens and it's unavoidable. They made the right decision from a business point of view.

[David Murray]

Kolyana

From what I've seen with games like Grand Thef Auto, that kind of attention tends to boost sales, if it does anything! And to be honest I don't think many moms would be outraged by their children using a fundamentalist government or planting nukes in their Civ3 game (it's not like we're talking blood and guts FPS here).

Anyway, maybe Firaxis will let us work round these problems by letting us add them in "by the back door" through the editor. *crosses fingers*

[Kolyana]

David, I couldn't agree more ... but i'm sure most companies (or those that like to play it 'safe') don't like the adverse attention.

Don't get me wrong, I'm the opposite of these so called 'do-gooders'. After an age of playing AD&D and just about every violent game I can get my hands on, I'm fully aware that I'll never be a soccer mom type.

But I do understand why Firaxis would remove those particular parts of the game. I also think that it is respectful of those who died.

Now, if a future editor then allows individuals to put those back into the game, fair enough ... but globally they did a good thing.

[barefootbadass]

I don't think having fundamentalism in the game would have been disrespectful to those who died. It's part of the game in the last incarnation and removing it took a lot out of it. Its the single biggest thing missing that I expected to be in the game and I find it ridiculous that it is not.

I don't blame firaxis, it was a decision that was hastily made because infogrames wanted them to get it out unfinished so they could hit the die hard fans with a charge for the game a second time when MP comes out. Hopefully it will be put back in by then.

Until then we'll have to mod some kind of government in its place.

[Skanky Burns]

It was a timing thing. Putting a game out so soon where you could almost replay that event would be a very bad idea, and backlash could very well have killed most of civs market share.

Put the same thing in now, not many people would blink an eye.


But anyway, we can add our own types of governments.

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by MarkG
the log will be posted on sunday

Oh, and where is the log then???
Its 7 pm Sunday... still waiting



Its annoying being in Australia, having to wait for the rest of the world to catch up