New small wonders we'd like to see

[Thrawn05]

I got an idea, how about a European Union small wonder? It would pool all productivity and money into one fund that each civ that built it shares, also increases likelyhood that another civ would agree to a MPP without coughing up some extra money to con them into it. Also, it loses its effect when you declare war (not through a MPP, or defending yourself).

Since it pools the money and all, could you imagine what you'll get if everyone also had a wall street?

IDK, it sounds good, but I could be wrong.

[BanastreTa]

The best idea for a small wonder is already included in the game; the Manhattan Project.

It was a bad feature in Civ 2 allowing any Civ to build nukes after the Manhattan project. Manhattan P was a broken wonder, at the best a waste of shields and at the worst giving a tool to your opponents for free (this wasn't much of a problem until multiplayer, since the AI wasn't very good at deploying nukes, in my experience).

It surprises me that in Civ 3, now that the game designers have a perfect foil to correctly implement the manhattan project and nukes--the small wonder--that they did not do so. And, as of yet, I haven't seen anybody successfully be able to hack it into a small wonder using the editor.

As for my own creative additions to the wonders canon, it is still too early in the morning.

BT (no reason for the smile, other than to utilize the cool new santa hats)

[sophist]

Originally posted by justjake73

Constitution: Requires you be in a Republic or Democracy and have a certain number of printing presses and / or tv stations (for freedom of the press). Increases trade by 20% in each city (through a feeling that one's rights and freedoms are guaranteed) but increase unhappy faces in each city by 1 (increased freedom = increased crime). War weariness is reduced SIGNIFICANTLY more than without a Con. for going to war to support allies or if your nation has been attacked (your people are patriotic and know you are defending Freedom and their way of life).

Of course, first we need a Printing Press (Publishing House?) improvement. I would argue that unhappy faces are increased because people are better informed and better able to band together, but I guess the effects are the same.

I also agree with a Constitution being permissible in all governments besides Despotism, and perhaps Communism.

Auschwitz = bad idea. The rest of these look pretty good. I especially like Green Revolution and Superconducting Power Grid.

Re: bio warfare; that was originally in the game. It's in the docs, so I'm guessing it was yanked post-September 11.

[mtgillespie]

I just thought it was funny that you gave the internet a culture rating

[Deornwulf]

Put the Wonder back into Wonder

I would like to see the effects of wonders randomizes within set parameters for each one. The architects may have had an idea of what they wished to accomplish in building the "great thing" but could they have truly predicted the impact the wonder would have on civilization.

Reality aside and more to the point since Civ is a game, a bit of randomness would increase the replay value of the game. One would not have a set strategy to what wonders to build in what order to achieve a victory. For me, every civ game I play, regardless of difficulty setting boils down to the same predictable pattern of building improvements and wonders.

I do not mean that after building the Pyramids that you would end up with your galleys being safer at see and having increased movement but that each wonder could be given a set of bonuses from which to randomly pick once the wonder is completed. In one game the Pyramids might improve the industry of the city in which they are built, in another increase the trade of the city or another act as a free temple in ever city. (These off-the-cuff examples are not really balanced.)

The effects would have to be well-thought out to keep them from being too unbalancing. Of course, all of the possible effects would have to worthwhile for the expenditure made for the improvement.

[dweez]

Originally posted by Thrawn05
I got an idea, how about a European Union small wonder? It would pool all productivity and money into one fund that each civ that built it shares, also increases likelyhood that another civ would agree to a MPP without coughing up some extra money to con them into it. Also, it loses its effect when you declare war (not through a MPP, or defending yourself).

Since it pools the money and all, could you imagine what you'll get if everyone also had a wall street?

IDK, it sounds good, but I could be wrong.

This "wonder" should of course increase corruption as well.

[Disgracian]

Here's my contribution

The MCG (Melbourne Cricket Ground)

It may be the greatest sporting stadium in the world, but is not without its setbacks. While it is the very acme of grandeur and a source of pride for the city, the rest of your empire experiences severe jealousy.

Effects:
* Up to 10 happy citizens in the city where it is built.
* 2 unhappy citizens in every other city.
* Generates 2 culture per turn


The Mega-Mall

Massive shopping centres that come with standard issue fast-food emporiums, general purpose stores, boutiques, carparks, etc. Sure, they're convenient, but they kill local business and are really quite decadent.

Effects:
* Doubles the effect of all marketplaces.
* 1 unhappy citizen (bankrupt small business owners) in all cities.
* All cities generate 5 less culture per turn.


The Olympic Games

The battlefield of the new world. Once upon a time, nations competed for dominance with sword, shield, axe and bow. Now in this enlightened age, they compete with shotput, discus, javelin and ...uhh...err, uneven parallel bars.

They are held every 20 turns (an abstract value, more for game balance than any reflection of realism) in a random civilisation and run for, say, 5 turns. Tax revenue in the host city is increased by 200%, maybe more, to reflect massive influx of tourist money pouring into the local economy.

The winning nation experiences huge initial benefits that slowly taper down to nothing by the time the next Olympics are scheduled.

Effects:
* Allows the construction of Sports Academies.
* Revenue and luxury output doubled in all cities for winning civilisation. Benefits reduce gradually over time.


Cure for AIDS
replaces Longevity

The grim spectre of death is finally removed from the joyous act of procreation. Now it may be committed with reckless abandon.

Effects:
* Increases city growth factor from 1 to 2.
* 2 happy citizens in all cities.
* Generates 1 culture per turn.

[Zealot]

Originally posted by justjake73
All good except for Auschwitz. Even with the negative effects it is too evil, horrible and controversial to put in any "game." This board would be flooded with every kind of Neo-Nazi and racist scum imaginable.

I totally agree with you. Down with Auchwitz.

[Jumping Choya]

Actually, yes. Now that we have undesirable residents in our captured cities, we need an effecient way to dispose of them besides starvation, which is much too slow and unreliable. Actually, most of the victums will be electrons, not woman and children (do we ever really care about men?)

I'm able to get along just fine with no Auschwitz. I've never lost a city after a conquest, and I've done plenty of it.

And hey, drop the "I'm cool cuz I'm sarcastic" tone. Of course the victims won't be real.

And I mentioned women and children only because they were primarily the ones who were executed outright - the men were sent around to do heavy, undesireable labor.

Actually, you are correct, there are many ignorant people out there who will never pick up a book and who will remain uninformed. And how will they get the idea that they could pick up a book and read about this?

Duh...they go to school, they talk with people, get the History or Discovery Channel...as popular as Civilization III has been, there are MANY more people out there who haven't even heard of it yet would still manage to learn about the death camp.

The concept of relying on a computer game to spread knowledge is absurd. Perhaps the next game should also get updates every week that gives me hints on reading material I would like? Maybe recommend a novel for my uninfomred, uneducated self?

Absolutely, along with Nagasaki victoms, concentration camp victoms, beautiful cathedrals, all the other works of man that comprise civilization.

You're rather sick. Civilization is not comprised of victims. It's comprised of many other things that don't involve mass death. Terrorist attacks and death camps are NOT normal occurances and therefore don't find their way into the game. Sadistic events is not, and will not, be the aim of the Civilization series. Not only would the developers find it morally disturbing, but they look at it from a business sense: how many people out there would buy a game that treats you to videos of people hitting sidewalks, radiation victims, people being shot? A lot less than you think.

? I'm not sure I follow the logic here? Maby we should use a nice euphamism to make it more acceptable?

Um, sure. How's this: instead of calling you with a deranged view of what belongs in a game, I'll say that you're the kind of good guy with alternate desires in computer gaming. Euphamistic enough? (That was a funny joke there, I'm not being serious about you being a deranged maniac or anything. I'm sure you're a wonderful human being)

Put it this way (in relation to nuclear weapons): nukes have been used only as a means of ending a war, and probably resulted in less deaths for both sides than if they hadn't been used (since there would have been massive civilian casualties if the American troops had to go through nearly every Japanese city to force a surrender). The death camp, on the other hand, served no real purpose except carry out Hitler's agenda. There was no reason to put so many people to death, on the grounds they weren't German or were Jewish, etc.

Wow!

Yeah!
This sentence speaks for itself, I just can't add anything more sarcastic.

Wit and cleverness around every corner with you. So, er, what do you mean?

It's all those pure and simple things that really frighten me, like 'lets go kill those dirty Jews', that's pure and simple, yes?

You should read some quotes from Hitler's speaches about being pure, simple and ingnorant as virtues.

Umm, what the hell?

Just that we should ignore things that have to do with conflict, war, civilization and history as inappropriate for a game called civilization because we have some negative emotional response.

No, wrong. Please stop misinterpretting me. I just don't think

"We've got to teach the people! Deploy Civilization III!"

because people just won't learn about things like the Auschwitz from the game. They'll think, "Hey, I'll build this whatever thing because it kills people and gets me shields. Cool!"

There are plenty of other channels for learning out there. War and conflict have their place in the game because that is essential to empire building. Mass extermination, and symoblizing a Nazi death camp, is not part of normal civilizations.

I think it all comes down to differing views of just what Civilization III (and its successors) is all about. You think that every little detail of civilization should be in the game, while I think that a more broad sense is what is in order and that there's no need for horrific things like the Auschwitz to be represented. And if that's the issue here, there's really nothing either of us could do to change the other's opinion.

BTW, the concepts for your other ideas are good, but just a little too powerful.

[Malleus]

I can't remember the name of the law, but it's a usenet law that whenever Hitler or Nazism is brought up in a thread, it's officially over and no real informaion will be exchanged from that point on....cheers!

The main idea out of this that I like is the addition of a new improvement to my game: Amusement Park.
Makes 2 unhappy citizens content.
3 upkeep

K

[Expatriate]

New small wonder:

---
Interment Camp

Removes one resistor of foreign nationality from any city you conquer each turn. For each resistor removed in this manner the city will have an extra unhappy citizen for the next 20 turns.

Culture: 0

Historically camps like this have been used by many nations in many periods on human history. Often used to control the native populations of newly conquered colonies (american indians)or to contain ethnic minorities that the country sees as a threat (american japanese during WWII).
---


See? This doesnt have to be about Auswitz or the other horrible camps employed by the nazis. The US has done things that were just as nasty, although on a smaller scale. Most of the great european colonial powers did the same things. Therefore, this is a major part of human history and has affected at least as many people as Shakespear's Theatre or the Collosus.

Personally I can get by just fine without having this in Civ III, but the reason for not including should never be political correctness. PC makes me sick, and in some ways I think its the greatest threat our civilazation faces. The PC crowd wants to censor free speech in the name of "protecting the masses from the horrible thruth". At least the nazis didnt try to excuse their censorship with that lie.

[Nakar Gabab]

Out of morbid curiosity, does anyone REALIZE the cultural impact of the Internet, TV, and "pop culture" in general? Mass media, Hollywood, the music industry... they've given American culture of today the Civ3 equivalent of a 3x or 4x or more boost. You can find posters of Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods in African tribal villages, for crying out loud. Of course this can't be modeled in-game accurately, for balance purposes... but the cultural potential of being dominant in the modern age is... staggering.

[Provost Harrison]

I would still like to see the WTC as a wonder, I reckon it's stature should guarantee that, even if it has been destroyed. Perhaps it could give a certain amount of gold to the host civ per trade route in existence or something!

[Expatriate]

Originally posted by Nakar Gabab
Out of morbid curiosity, does anyone REALIZE the cultural impact of the Internet, TV, and "pop culture" in general? Mass media, Hollywood, the music industry... they've given American culture of today the Civ3 equivalent of a 3x or 4x or more boost. You can find posters of Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods in African tribal villages, for crying out loud. Of course this can't be modeled in-game accurately, for balance purposes... but the cultural potential of being dominant in the modern age is... staggering.

I would argue that if we stick to ingame terms, then the US has won a cultural victory in the real world. The massive US influence on the rest of the world is a result of that "cultural victory", not the the means

Fortunatly, someone was smart enough to press that button with "Play just a few more turns"

[Expatriate]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I would still like to see the WTC as a wonder, I reckon it's stature should guarantee that, even if it has been destroyed. Perhaps it could give a certain amount of gold to the host civ per trade route in existence or something!

Its allready there under the name Wall Street.