Why are you here?

[redstar1]

Psych 101 students know nothing except a list of pre-defined behavioural attributes that mean very little when applied outside the narrow scope of the course case-studies.....

As for yin26, I have been reading his posts for the past 2/3 years and the guy generally has a point. Even more so it is generally well argued and well put which is more than what can be said about a lot of the posts here.

I have to agree with the origional poster in that I also feel frustrated at what appears to be a lack of decent discussion about problems with the game (and lets face it, there are quite a few). A lot of threads to seem to degenerate into name-calling and general crap. But then, its a free world.

Perhaps we need a serious discussion forum?

Dave

[yin26]

Dave:

Your post struck me.

You are right. It's time to quit my little blowing off steam sessions and either contribute or be quiet a while. Thanks for that.

I'll try to lay low.

Yin Out.

[CB2034]

I get a kick outa reading your guys arguments. You guys are too funny.

[Nagel]

When people complain, it doesn't mean they hate the game.

Obviously, most people on these forums play or have played the game. You don't waste your time with subjects that are of no interst to you. When they, or I, complain about certain issues in CivIII, it doesn't mean we hate the game. We try to focus on what could be improved. There is no use in posting over and over again: "We love the cultural thing!", "The AI is so much better than in Civ2!!", "Ah, bombardment is a great solution!"

Hopefully someone will read the complaints and change the game.

[gachnar]

So perhaps I was harsh with Venger.

Sorry.

Here is the point:

Yes. Firaxis needs to hear criticism.
Yes. Many people dont like the game.
Yes. They all should be allowed to voice their opinion.


But should they voice their opinion, every day, in 3 different threads? Now yin and Venger got picked on because they had just finished posting their same (valid) criticisms on a different thread.

Several times I have started reading a thread that would have been helpful until someone disagrees with something Firaxis did. Then suddenly people jump out and say why they hated the game too. Its essentially a thread lock. This happens all the time in General and Strategy. Creation and Files are relatively safe.

Now (though it may not seem so) I want these people to voice their opinions. They deserve to. Venger has a very valid, important and useful point of view to me. So Venger: Sorry. Many others are much much worse than you. I just knew that I could actually hold a discussion with you because you are still actually being intelligent about all this.

So, this is not to criticize or flame. Yin and Venger (and Locutus who is probably not reading this) are some of the intelligent critics: I just want to know what you hope to accomplish. If you want to send a formal complaint to Firaxis, I'll help you. I'll add my complaints. But I dont see what repeating the same complaints in the forums will ever help.

Again, many people are much worse than you. There was a thread that was created for the sole purpose to say: "If you cant kill ships with aircraft I wont play this". There were 3 other threads discussing this. All of them had resorted to Firaxis bashing. There was no longer any discussion of gameplay balance, or making the game fun. It was about comparing it to other games and discussing how dumb Firaxis is.

Some people are saying that I'm whining as much as the critics. I'm not trying to. I really want to discuss what people want to do with their complaints. Do you want to suggest implementable changes to Firaxis? Do you want to send complaints to Infogrames? Or are you just wanting to let off steam?

[yin26]

gachnar:

Thanks for that. I understand your point very well. For what it's worth, I'm reaaaaaaly trying to just relax and hope for a good Gold Edition. Until then, it's sometimes hard to keep quiet, but I'll try.

--Yin

[gachnar]

Originally posted by yin26
Thanks for that. I understand your point very well. For what it's worth, I'm reaaaaaaly trying to just relax and hope for a good Gold Edition.

This is exactly my point. I hope Venger understands too. I have complaints too (most recent: the anti-IFE could have been done better). If I was working for Firaxis, and was planning a Gold Edition, I would want suggestions specifically from you and Venger (and Locutus if he would).

I was hoping we could weed out most of the ranting flames of Firaxis, so we could have intelligent discussions of the things you guys dont like, so that Firaxis can try to fix them. I think that many of us could come up with very good ways of making the game better. But we need to discuss not argue.

[Libertarian]

[...a salute to Yin...]

There is no more sure indicator of a man's character and intelligence than that he be willing to change his mind. Your last two posts were humbling, Yin. I'm sorry I was heavy-handed with you. Clearly, you're not such an easy read after all.

God go with you.

[Venger]

Gach -

I understand your point of view here - and it seems you understand mine. I hope you will see my posts in the future in the light they are offered - usually with a solution to what I feel are problems, and with the goal of a better game for all of us.

Venger

[yin26]

Libertarian: I'm just too tired these days to try to explain myself, which I'm sure must annoy the hell out of anybody actually paying attention and trying to have an intelligent discussion.

Thanks for trying to give me the shock treatment anyway. Well done. LOL!

[Fidel]

uh, a rather soppy ending to a nice flaming thread
so lets sum it up:
1) firaxis did some things well, some less well
2) some people like it, some dont. some people hate it, some dont
3) venger promises not to post more than 2 new threads per day

[Alex]

Well, seems like everyone is getting along...

And just when I was ready to dress my asbestos suit...

[LordLynch64]

Venger and Yin you are the weakest links good bye

[Libertarian]

Ugh. Did you have to invoke that duck sacking botch?

[LordLynch64]

Sorry couldn't resisit.