Easier to culturally acquire cities -- WHAT????

[bahoo]

From the patch:

* It's slightly easier to culturally acquire cities.

HUH??? What??? Who asked for this???
Was this at all necessary?

I could buy it, had the patch also included:

* new option to suppress/put down deposers

or even:

* units will no longer mysteriously disappear when a city deposes, they will wisely retreat to your nearest border

The game is anti war and conquest enough as is. War is impossible to wage successfully, unless you have enough troops to pile up all the taken cities while maintaining an offense and tons of extra money to hurry production of temples/libraries etc. Even then you're not guaranteed keeping the cities.... In the course of my games I've lost numerous cities with 10+ troops in them. I have also lost a city twice to defection that was within 4 squares of a city that had all cultural improvements and 3 or 4 wonders in it.

It doesn't make sense and it's just plain lame. I get sick of razing cities when I have no particular qualm with the population, just their backwards governments.

If I wanted to devote my time to growing my population, making them happy, cleaning up pollution, and building a cute spaceship, I'd have bought SimCity. I at least want the option to be able to successfully wage global war and conquest.

I realize this is just (or rather hopefully) the first patch and it's to fix all the nagging game-breaking bugs. But PLEASE firaxis, tell us something is going to be done about this cultural business in the future....OR

...give me ONE LOGICAL EXPLANATION as to why an army of soldiers (these people are armed remember) would peacefully allow citizens to defect from THEIR country to an ENEMY country, without putting up a fight, or if they were outnumbered and scared, at least retreating.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

IIRC this refers to the human player getting culture flips against the AI, not vice-versa.

Dan

[Disk Killer]

Exactly, it was clear enough in the readme.txt that this was an advantage for the human, ergo it will be EASIER to keep captured cities.

I can see how it would be misread by one or two, though, especially people that are especially peeved at defections [I'm not.... since it's never happened to me]

[Wrong_shui]

Originally posted by Disk Killer
[I'm not.... since it's never happened to me]

An what, pray tell, magical potion allows that?

[Karhgath]

The trick is to always be culturally strong. Getting temples early on in each of your cities is a very good step in the right direction. I never had cities defecting, except once, but I attacked a bigger civ with equal culture on a far away continent, so it was mostly my fault(and it was its capital too).

[ElitePersian]

i dont get it, you mean the culture of the AI has been given lower priority, therefore it makes it harder for their cities to depose and/or easier for yours to depose?

[Ralf]

Then the human player gets kicked out from a newly conquered city, it indirectly means that his culture wasnt strong enough. Now, thanks to this adjustment, it becomes slightly easier for the human player to avoid being kicked out.

[barefootbadass]

Umm, I don't think this has anything to do with random depositions, it is about cultural assimilations like when you place a city two squares from one of theirs and start pumping culture improvements. The cultural assimilation thing is pretty predictable, especially earlier in the game.

The governer being overthrown thing is related to culture, but is more random because it is not likely and involves other factors.

[bahoo]

Re: Easier to culturally acquire cities -- WHAT????

Thanks for the response Dan....

I must've misunderstood that part of the patch.

But at any rate, is there any plan in the future to patch in an option to try to suppress a deposing city(i.e. have my soldeirs fight the revolutionaries) or to retreat from the city without incident?

It'll be nice that cities don't depose 4 or 5 turns after capture as much now, but I still have a hard time accepting the fact that my troops up and vanish without a trace.

[The Rook]

Re: Re: Easier to culturally acquire cities -- WHAT????

Originally posted by bahoo
Thanks for the response Dan....


It'll be nice that cities don't depose 4 or 5 turns after capture as much now, but I still have a hard time accepting the fact that my troops up and vanish without a trace.

True that. I had a city that I built that was taken over by the Indians. At that point in the game, I couldn't do much about it, but later in the game, I was able to get it back. Towards the end of the game though, the city deposed my government and went back to the Indians. I lost an Army, 4 or 5 misc units, and about 12 bombers. It's not so much I lost the city, but losing the units was hard to swallow.

[Malleus]

I had a city flip back to the original civilization, which would be fine, except for the following:

city size 22:
11 russians (original culture)
8 babylonians (the only reasonable civ)
1 german (via worker)
2 egyptians (via workers)

I had the city for 200 years, from the 1700's on.
I had built every cultural object in it.
It was four squares from a size 35 city of mine with six wonders and gobs of culture (I think 9000+)
It had close to 1000 culture of my own in it.

FLIP!
Luckily I won the game via spaceship four turns later, so I just took the minor score hit.

But...grrrrr

K

[fikrii]

I might be wrong, and this might be off topic, but in the case of insurrection, as I recall in Civ1/Civ2 you could massacre 1 population point to end an insurrection and keep things in order.

I WANT THAT POWER!!!

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Skanky Burns]

There are 2 types of war: A war of aggression (kill em all!!) and a war of colonisation (more land for me!!)

In a war of aggression, you shouldnt be keeping any cities - raze them all. You wont be getting deposed anytime soon.

In a war of colonisation, bring a settler along with your main attack force. After beating an enemy citiy into submission, RAZE IT!! Use your settler on that spot to build yourself a loyal city, and get a heap of free workers as a bonus.

The only exception to the RAZE rule is when a city has wonders in it. Just use your artillery (you do have artillery, dont you??) until the city is down to 1 pop point. Then capture and hold. With 1 pop point, they will be very unlikely to revolt. Just to be sure, add another 2 pop to the city (from your workers, NOT captured slaves) and deposing will be a thing of the past.

For this, you dont even need a large cultural value

[simwiz2]

"In a war of colonisation, bring a settler along with your main attack force. After beating an enemy citiy into submission, RAZE IT!! Use your settler on that spot to build yourself a loyal city, and get a heap of free workers as a bonus.

The only exception to the RAZE rule is when a city has wonders in it. Just use your artillery (you do have artillery, dont you??) until the city is down to 1 pop point. Then capture and hold. With 1 pop point, they will be very unlikely to revolt. Just to be sure, add another 2 pop to the city (from your workers, NOT captured slaves) and deposing will be a thing of the past."

But the whole point of conquest is to take things to increase your size/pop/score. how does your score improve if u go around destroying cities and merely spreading out your population? Plus its not realistic. Do you think when someone goes out to conquer a nation, that they would actually kill the million+ citizens in the capital, burn it to the ground, and then build another city right there? Not likely. "oh, i didnt like their citizens, so i killed them, and i didnt like their buildings so i burnt them down so i could build the exact same buildings myself" maybe in ancient times, but not nowadays. razing cities and ordering the slaughter of millions of civilians would land your nation a quick death in the hands of the UN and US.

[wapamingo]

I dont know where you got the idea that you can masacre 1 population to stop insurection in civ1 and civ2. There is not such thing there...

I understand that city defection is annoying but you got conquest war all wrong...If you are about to go conquer do not stop and just eliminate the civ. I rarely had problems with city defection (I play Huge map, 16 civs, monarch-emperor). I go conquer a civ 1.5x my size and maybe 1 or 2 did a city defect but always I had enough troops to take it back. I do not raze cities.

So my advice: Eliminate the civ fully and no defection will happen.

cheers