Should production shields acumulate like in SMAC?

[Zealot]

In SMAC you could have production shields accumulated to the next unit/improvement. In Civ 3 all the surplus is lost.

I have studied Industrial Organization. And I learned that factories nowadays are flexible enough to maximize the production line.
So, what I propose is that within an industrious/modern age technology the ability to use the surplus should be enabled. I think it would be quite realistic, and the player shouldn't have to micromanage this much. Especially in the late game...

[rid102]

So, what I propose is that within an industrious/modern age technology the ability to use the surplus should be enabled.

No, because by the Industrial/Modern period, cities tend to become stronger in production anyway. Giving production an extra bonus can and would lead to "runaway" scenarios where e.g. a city builds two or even three units per turn.

Cities become big production powerhouses by the late game with a half-decent city being able to build Mech. Inf. in a few turns etc.

I'd rather Firaxis spent their time fixing bugs or addressing some of the other gameplay issues raised here rather than tweaking something which is fundamentally OK.

[Zealot]

Originally posted by rid102
Cities become big production powerhouses by the late game with a half-decent city being able to build Mech. Inf. in a few turns etc.

If they are too powerful for you, then they're too powerful for everybody!
I'm not talking about a 10 or 15 shield surplus here! I'm just saying that this way you don't need to cycle through all your cities which are 1 turn away from finishing its production, so that you don't need to pick up a working citizen from a mine and place it on a flooding plain just because the shields that citizen would produce would be lost otherwise!
And that kind of micromanagement I consider as absolutely ridiculous!

[rid102]

If they are too powerful for you, then they're too powerful for everybody!

I didn't say they were too powerful. Rather production increases as your level of industrialisation increases. It's balanced enough as it is IMHO.

I'm not talking about a 10 or 15 shield surplus here!

But that's what can and does happen in the Industrial and Modern Era's.

Besides, even if it was added as a micro-management shortcut, some players would just abuse it and use to turn out two units/turn etc.

E.g. size 30 city with Iron Works and in a Golden Age will be cranking out 150+ sheilds per turn potentially.

And that kind of micromanagement I consider as absolutely ridiculous!

I agree. Personally, I never bother doing that because it will lengthen your turns by a factor of about 5 and there is very little gain to be had (maybe a pop. point or two by the end of the game - but so what?).

Like I said before, a lot more stuff needs attention in this game.

[Zealot]

Originally posted by rid102


I didn't say they were too powerful. Rather production increases as your level of industrialisation increases. It's balanced enough as it is IMHO.



But that's what can and does happen in the Industrial and Modern Era's.

Excuse me, but did you ever play SMAC?

[FALVES]

I tottaly agree with you Zealot, it would be a clever way of dealing with those lost shields.

[simwiz2]

Very good idea zealot. its always frustrating to have 99 shields, and still take 3 turns to make battleships, while a city with 67 shields could do the exact same! Its better to actually get use out of these 32 extra shields, rather than going around rippin up irrigation and digging mines to get it over that 100, then having the city starve

and very good point about micromanagement. that 1 pop may not matter vs the AI, but when MP comes out, games will be so close EVERYTHING counts, and mp in civ games takes long enough without 16 people going to every city to put people on irrigation every turn

[Zealot]

Thank you for your input. But I expect more from the comunity on this subject. Let's hope this poll is somewhat useful!

[Zealot]

bump

[rid102]

Yes, I played SMAC... I wasn't aware though that it was some Holy Grail by which all other games are supposed to be measured though...

Do you not think players will abuse this "feature" though?

E.g. look on the strategy section about rush building via population. Quite a small, seemingly innocent gameplay enhancer that is actually a complete game unbalancer and allows players to build insane numbers of units long before you'd normally otherwise get that far.

[Hywel Dda]

No offence, but it seems to me that rid102 is going rather over the top on what would be a fairly minor change. I for one would like to see this change, which would certainly reduce the need for micro-management without having to forfeit sheilds in the "carry over".

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the change allow multiple units to be built at once, nor make rush builds easier.

[rid102]

I was just pointing out that a lot of stuff can and will get abused by players if possible... if you think that's OTT then try reading some of the strat. section...

I also questioned how many people actually bother to MM down to such a pedantic level... I don't with Civ3 and never have done with Civ1/Civ2 either.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the change allow multiple units to be built at once, nor make rush builds easier.

Unfortunately, it will because that's a side effect of what's being suggested here. E.g. think of a city producing 20 shields/turn and building a Warrior. Where is the excess going to go? Into another Warrior? OK Then you're building two units per turn. If the shields accumulate in the resource box (without building a second warrior) then build 10 warriors (each in a single turn btw) and you have 100 resources for free. Build 60 Warriors (in 60 turns) and you get a Wonder for free at the end of it. That's silly.

[Zealot]

Originally posted by rid102
Unfortunately, it will because that's a side effect of what's being suggested here. E.g. think of a city producing 20 shields/turn and building a Warrior. Where is the excess going to go? Into another Warrior? OK Then you're building two units per turn. If the shields accumulate in the resource box (without building a second warrior) then build 10 warriors (each in a single turn btw) and you have 100 resources for free. Build 60 Warriors (in 60 turns) and you get a Wonder for free at the end of it. That's silly.

If you can get a city producing 20 shields a turn, you wouldn't certainly use them on warriors!
So I really don't see where there is the sillyness beside your own explanation!
And if you don't micromanage to this point, good. But a LOT of players do. Especially on MP games. And that is dull.

[Zealot]

*bump

[Disk Killer]

I'm personally not hot and bothered about it, I guess they could add it in as an option if enough people ask for it. I would rather that you would have to research a tech for it before it went into effect, though (Industrial Organization).

But then that would be a lot to ask of a patch.