Why do the AI ignore my ZOC even with a fortress?

[Pingu:]

It annoys me, the fact that the fortress/ZOC attacks, even when they do happen, only seem to do minimal damage to a unit, rather than actaully crippling it!

If the unit moving past the fortress/ZOC doesn't also have a speed advantage, then it should be completely trashed, down to 1hp or destroyed.
Perhaps if the unit also has a speed advantage, then it should only lose 1hp, enabling cavalry/tank attacks to do flanking manouvers, but making a tradiaitonal Swordsman/archer attack defeatable by a well placed castle.
Hmmm I like this compromise, thoughts anyone?

The ZOCs coud befinately be beefed up a bit.


Pingu:

[optimus2861]

Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual
Damn!. I think its a nasty bug. It makes my Maginot line useless!

Just like the real one, then? That's realism for you!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Asesino_Virtual
Yeah. Why?

The Civ-2 style ZOC-ability is gone - also for speedy units (like the cavalry) within fortresses, it seems. The "free shoots" was meant as an replacemeant, but these seems to occur only seldomly, with plenty of passive impotent responses in between.

Does this make the whole idea with border-guarding fortresses more or less impotent and useless? Well, yes unfortunately.

[Jaybe]

Questions:
When a unit is in a fortress and it "exercises" its ZOC, was the unit fortified?

When a unit is NOT in a fortress and it "exercises" its ZOC, was the unit fortified?

My suspicion is that the "fortified" status of a unit and its ZOC status are relevant. Also, its status may have to be different whether it's in a fortress or not -- further "research" is clearly necessary.

Check within the Civilopedia and/or the Editor to see if a specific unit has a ZOC on its own (all units are supposed to have one in a fortress -- but the fortified bit has to be cleared up).

Now personally, I would prefer that fortified units NEVER exercise their ZOC. They are more concerned with not losing their lives than with interfering with someone just passing in front of them.*

*That's because of my previous experience with wargames back in the 70's (paper maps, cardboard counters for units; Redmond Simonsen, James Dunnigan of SPI).

[Karhgath]

It is really simple guys.

ZOC is NOT broken. I've done some tests and it seems to work fine for me.

The thing that makes it look broken is that, when you make an opportunity attack AND miss, you don't see an animation, no feedback, nothing. Also, they make only ONE attack, which, if successful, does 1 damage. Nothing more. (it might be weak, but not broken). Furthermore, I *think* that only ONE unit in a stackc an make an opportunity attack. Not 100% sure tho, but it looks like this.

In the editor, I made a 50/50 unit just for one civ, with ZOC, and when playing(against spearman and warriors), I nearly always made a successful opportunity attack. So I don't think it's broken directly.

The way combat works, may, or may not be broken tho. Opportunity attack just use those same rules, nothing more, nothing less.

One thing that might be nice is, when the opportunity attack is successful, the unit cannot enter the squared where ZOC was exerted.

[Easy Rhino]

good investigations karhgath, I have been thinking that missed attacks are skipped too.

However, if ALL of your guesses are true (only one unit ZOC attacks, successful attack stops movement), then it sounds like ZOC is really, really, stupid.


ER