For the love of good AI...

[Sratava]

I know there have been posts about AI. And probably one addressing this in particular, but Firaxis, when you make your patch, fix the bargaining methods of the AI. When they want two technologies, a luxury, and about 800 gold from you for their World Map, but they'll only offer a few gold for your's, there's a problem. They always seem to overprice things...

[General Ludd]

Yes. Firaxis, please make the AI accept anything I offer - even if it is completely pointless and gives it no benefit at all. It will make the game much better because the AI will always do what I want and never be able to take any of my cities. Thanx.

[kittenOFchaos]

When you WANT something because you are proposing the deal expect to be screwed...when they come a-begging expect great things...

[Xerxes314]

What would be nice is if your own advisor would clue you in. When the Aztecs offer you 8 gold for Engineering, he shouldn't say "This deal should be acceptable." just because 8 gold is their whole treasury. He should say something like "They're trying to pull a fast one on us." or "You'd have to be insane to accept such a pittance." Likewise, if a friendly AI is going to give you 2 tech for a spare luxury, he could tell you "They seem desperate. This is a bargain."

Xerxes

[Green Giant]

They shouldn't have to. If you can't figure that you are getting jipped by a piece of programming code then you deserve to get screwed.

The AI civs aren't there for your benefit, they are competing just like you, maybe they don't want to trade with you. You don't have to trade with them either.

[Capt Dizle]

Two oddities about the bargaining table. Sometimes you will offer up a juicy tech and the AI will only respond with 1 gold. Thats goofy.

The other is when they say no deal can be done and then accept next to nothing....the AI has no clue on the worth of strategic resources it seems.

Oil for example should be held dearly but the AI gives it up so easily.

[John Paul Jones]

When the AI offers you 1 gold for a tech it is probably because it is just about to make the breakthrough on the following turn. Try doing the same yourself - most times you will be able to make the trade - saving yourself one turn of research. The value of the tech seems to drop the closer you get to discovering it (as well as how many other civs have it).

[Akka]

Tested yesterday : my civilization already practically razed two others (reduced to 1 city each). I am the first superpower of the world, I have infantry and artillery, a good sized army, high culture. I'm in warlord difficulty (which means the AI is supposed to be friendlier). Romans are not desperate, but they are very late in tech (still middle-age), and they are not very big either in size or in military/culture power.
What I mean is that I can crush them anytime I want, and that they could vastly benefit of a mutual protection pact, especially considering that their other neighbourgs are the #2 and 3 most powerful civs.

I propose them Mutual protection pact and right of passage. They should be begging for it. Or at least be pleased. Or at least fear to make me mad.
Instead, here is what they ask for and call a "fair deal" :
Right of Passage, Mutual protection pact.
Steam Power
Medecine
Wine
Spice
World Map
587 gold (my whole treasury)
122 gold per turn

Who would be stupid enough to accept such an absurd deal ? It would be less costly to wage a total war, destroy them and take whatever I want.

Originally posted by Osweld
Yes. Firaxis, please make the AI accept anything I offer - even if it is completely pointless and gives it no benefit at all. It will make the game much better because the AI will always do what I want and never be able to take any of my cities. Thanx.

Don't feel like a smartass, dude ? This guy talk about the fact that AI should stop asking for outrageous deal, and you answer as trolling "make the AI do whatever I want". Are you trolling or just plain stupid ?

It's normal that the AI try to make a good deal. It's perhaps even acceptable for it to refuse a deal that is not slightly unfair to its advantadge. But stop the madness, if anyone give me 1 luxury, 1 tech and 150 gold and ask for 1 luxury in exchange, I would be completely dumb to refuse it. Even 1 luxury vs 1 luxury would be a good deal - I loose nothing, I gain something, considering that I have 1 luxury in excess.
If I'm a backward second-class civ and that my neighbourg, able to destroy me in no time, propose me a mutual protection pact, I'll be glad to accept it, I gain more than him.
Though the AI would be *insulted* by the deal.
Well, what it does is that it's not even worth trying to deal with the AI. Crush it and takes what you want, it'll ALWAYS be a better deal.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Akka le Vil
587 gold (my whole treasury)

you call your civ a 'superpower'?

[HugoHillbilly]

Originally posted by Akka le Vil
If I'm a backward second-class civ and that my neighbourg, able to destroy me in no time, propose me a mutual protection pact, I'll be glad to accept it, I gain more than him.
Though the AI would be *insulted* by the deal.

This makes perfect sense. I can think of 3 reasons for this.

1)What civ were you? Certain civs are just incompatible, the romans might really not like you. Consider this: If the US suddenly offered Sadam Hussein or the Taliban a mutual protection pact would they accept? I think not.

2) If your a second-class civ surrounded by civs more powerful than you, if your Powerful MP partner goes to war you could get screwed in the ass as you just cant fight his *super* war, protected by him or not.

3)Relating to number 2, if the Romans were dragged into a war with you it would be way more expensive for them to fight it then you, so they want compensation via tech and your luxuries.

MPPs arent for friendship, they are military pacts. Try a right of passage with it, itll probably ask for less or accept.

[Cian McGuire]

you call your civ a 'superpower'?

Dude, I can't think of a better use for money then spending it- I try to never have too much extra money around (good for the proletariat economy too )

[benjy]

i reckons the way the AI has bargained, at least in the games ive played, have been pretty fair. for instance, early in the game, when all civs are pretty much in the dark, they will trade easily (normally in a simple swap).

but, if theyve explored more than you, and you offer them youre map, they'll tell you where to go if you try a straight swap. and why wouldnt they - theyre not gonna swap theyre nice Collins Atlas of the World for your crummy, written- on-the-back-of-an-envelope map of your own terriritory (which they already got 200 years ago) i think too the more powerfull you are, the more they expect from you.

also, the AI seems to ask more from the person who's trying to strike the bargain. this seems perfectly sound - when the AI comes to me with an offer i bump it up a bit. they do the same.

when a luxury trade runs out after 20 turns, they generally want a bit more coin. faira' nuff, i ask the same from the aI. the only time ive found it wanting a ludicrously high amount of wonga, its because im asking for some serious gear....

[Deathwalker]

Overall I like AI, I thinks it's better than Civ 2 and one of the parts of Civ 3 that nmeeds the least work

[xane]

but, if theyve explored more than you, and you offer them youre map

How the heck does the other guy KNOW what your map is worth before they've seen it ??? It would absurd to put a price on something like that and only shows the AI is blatently cheating.

Either party can get a bum deal.

Besides, that crummy piece of napkin might show you the only source of oil in the world one day ...

[benjy]

xane i take yer point there. this is how i see it though - im head to head with rome. we swap maps quite easily to start with because its obvious to both that neither has explored much and could use the other guys map.

later on, i still havent explored much, but i know rome has, because i can see ceaser's ships sailing about all over the place. so i know theyre gonna want a hefty price for it - the more of the world they see, the more ive got to pay for their charts. at the same time, my map gets cheaper or impossible to sell, because rome already knows what i know. so i guess its maybe not that the AI knows that youre maps are only good for toilet paper, its just that it knows you cant show it anything it hasnt already seen, because it does no how much it has seen.

i think that makes sense, or am i talking out my arse again???