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Why the rules whiners are wrong

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  • Why the rules whiners are wrong

    First off, apologies if this has all been said already (what hasn't though?), but I have to get this of my chest and provide a little counterbalance to all the Civ3 is crap threads.

    I'm getting really tired of reading threads stating that some game element is useless/overpowered or that unspecific favourite "broken."

    Take nukes for example, I've seen quite a few people state that nukes are useless and must be "fixed" in the next patch. Granted, lots of things need fixing in the forthcoming patch but nukes 'aint one of them. Whenever I build a nuke there's a sharp rise on my "power" histogram. Nukes are meant to be terror weapons, the thought of them worse than actual use, and that's how it works. With enough ICBM you can tell even the strongest Civ where to do and they'll take it.

    Flight too, loads of people say bombing needs patches. I disagree, with a good number of bombers you can decimate the defences of a city leaving it venerable to ground attack. But a ground attack is what you should have to follow... think combined arms, that's the best way to fight in Civ3.

    I could go on and on but I think the point is made. But I'll be most p'ed off if Firaxis neuter their fantastic game just because a number of vocal people don't really know where the designers where coming from with it. I couldn't agree more that Civ3 needs a good patch, but I think patching time would be much better spend squashing bugs than messing about with game rules and spoiling it for all the satisfied people.

  • #2
    Your point?
    Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

    Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

    Comment


    • #3
      Ain't it obvious?

      Point is... this game needs patching, but not a load of rule changes to satisfy a vocal minority who just don't really get it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ah - Well why didn't you say it in one line the first time?
        Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

        Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

        Comment


        • #5
          'cos if you can't justify an opinion it is hardly valid... try and keep up please.

          Comment


          • #6
            Heh, heh.

            Fair point, MrB. I think you're valid in explaining yourself. And for the books, I'm on your side. There are a lot of people who think they know better than designers who have spent the last 12 months or so designing and play-balancing the game.

            I'm not saying the whiners aren't right in a number of cases, but there are also a lot of people who'd just like things their own way.
            - mkl

            Comment


            • #7
              Hmm, I must have missed the bomber thing... I haven't heard many people complain about bombers not working when bombing cities. Bombers not being able to sink ships, on the other hand, is just plain ridicioulus.

              Nukes should be a LOT more powerful thn they are... Just because they are supposed to be terror weapons. Civ2 handled that pretty well... If I nuked someone, I could count on them to do their best to nuke me back... and usually succeeding unless I used my spies to kill them off.

              I'd even go so far as to say I'd prefer if large scale combat between to nulcear powers should be prohibited... But maybe that would remove too much of the conquer phase for most players.

              Either way, the game has some serious game play issues. Just because the designers spend 12 months working on it doesn't mean they did a good job...
              Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

              Comment


              • #8
                Nukes should be able to utterly decimate a town.

                Now if I put "I think" infront of it would that stop making me a whiner and stop u from getting upset about me bashing the game?
                Im sorry Mr Civ Franchise, Civ3 was DOA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bombers not being able to sink ships is not just plain rediculous. The game would be a lot less fun if they could. This has always been a big balance issue for Alpha Centauri, where ships are much less useful due to the fact that they can be wiped out in droves by tactical fighters

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why the rules whiners are wrong

                    Originally posted by MrB
                    First off, apologies if this has all been said already (what hasn't though?), but I have to get this of my chest and provide a little counterbalance to all the Civ3 is crap threads.

                    I'm getting really tired of reading threads stating that some game element is useless/overpowered or that unspecific favourite "broken."

                    Take nukes for example, I've seen quite a few people state that nukes are useless and must be "fixed" in the next patch. Granted, lots of things need fixing in the forthcoming patch but nukes 'aint one of them. Whenever I build a nuke there's a sharp rise on my "power" histogram. Nukes are meant to be terror weapons, the thought of them worse than actual use, and that's how it works. With enough ICBM you can tell even the strongest Civ where to do and they'll take it.

                    Flight too, loads of people say bombing needs patches. I disagree, with a good number of bombers you can decimate the defences of a city leaving it venerable to ground attack. But a ground attack is what you should have to follow... think combined arms, that's the best way to fight in Civ3.

                    I could go on and on but I think the point is made. But I'll be most p'ed off if Firaxis neuter their fantastic game just because a number of vocal people don't really know where the designers where coming from with it. I couldn't agree more that Civ3 needs a good patch, but I think patching time would be much better spend squashing bugs than messing about with game rules and spoiling it for all the satisfied people.

                    Good points, but I don't think you should worry. No matter how vocal this group is (no comment), in the end what will be patched will be what is easiest and quickest to fix. They will fix the bugs, but only those bugs that they agree are actual deficiencies. Changing game balance or adding things probably won't be very high on their list, and I'm not holding my breath for the "features we would like to see." Just my opinion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      However I must admit that a human being just playing the game twice would reveal almost all of the bugs that people have been complaining about. It is clear that firaxis was going for a go-live date and that their list of bugs was still unresolved before they went gold. I don't think anyone could argue that their beta testing "missed" the coastal fortress, or air superiority, or recon mission, or diplomatic advisor screen bugs.

                      -Gregg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bombers not being able to sink ships is not just plain rediculous. The game would be a lot less fun if they could. This has always been a big balance issue for Alpha Centauri, where ships are much less useful due to the fact that they can be wiped out in droves by tactical fighters
                        Yes it is ridiculous
                        Yes it might be less fun.

                        Depends if you want realism or not.
                        Im sorry Mr Civ Franchise, Civ3 was DOA

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          **games** should be fun 1st. Realistic, unrealistic, wierd, wacky, cool, pretty, etc 2nd. We are talking about a ***game***!

                          Zap

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For some people realism is fun.
                            Im sorry Mr Civ Franchise, Civ3 was DOA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by greggbert
                              However I must admit that a human being just playing the game twice would reveal almost all of the bugs that people have been complaining about. It is clear that firaxis was going for a go-live date and that their list of bugs was still unresolved before they went gold. I don't think anyone could argue that their beta testing "missed" the coastal fortress, or air superiority, or recon mission, or diplomatic advisor screen bugs.

                              -Gregg
                              The publisher (Interplay) is usually responsible for Quality Assurance testing.
                              Never underestimate the healing powers of custard.

                              Comment

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