Exciting changes in "THE BALANCER" mod

[Venger]

Originally posted by Elucidus
Of course they don't have the F-22 in the game

Which is strange, because the Civ2 Stealth Fighter was a F-22. Of course, Civ ToT was an F-117...go figure...

Venger

[monkspider]

Good info folks, i'll look at restoring the steath fighter back to it's default settings

[ElitePersian]

Originally posted by monkspider

Soren Johnson has said that the AI will be able to take advantage of virtually any player modifications.

thats really good to know, i hope its true and really does work, cause then the mod creators wont have to tweak the AI for every mod they make, it takes as lotta work off your shoulders.

However, i get the feeling that mod-creators will still have to change the AI a little bit for some mods, to get the most out of a mod. wouldnt you agree?

nice work however with the mod. how long u been playing with it so far? does it really balance the game a lot more?

[Elucidus]

Monkspider,
I think what I said was more of an arguement for having them the way you made them. Incerception means destroying the target, why should it matter if you do it through stealth or a dogfight? Just a thought.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by ElitePersian


thats really good to know, i hope its true and really does work, cause then the mod creators wont have to tweak the AI for every mod they make, it takes as lotta work off your shoulders.

However, i get the feeling that mod-creators will still have to change the AI a little bit for some mods, to get the most out of a mod. wouldnt you agree?

nice work however with the mod. how long u been playing with it so far? does it really balance the game a lot more?

Thanks for the kind words, I have been playing with it for a week and half or so now, and I think it *really* adds greatly to the game. Artillery type units are actually useful now, wonders of the world have been tweaked, governments have been tweaked, just the addition of the squatter unit for expansionist civs just makes the game Sooooo much more balanced. I have some more interesting stuff on the way for this mod, so be sure to stay tuned! Version 1.4 is going to be just as revolutionary as 1.3 was, guaranteed! And much more polished, I hope to work out some of the oddities that have appeared after more play-testing as well.

[Pyrodrew]

Re: Exciting changes in "THE BALANCER" mod

Good work. If I don't mention something that means I liked it or am indifferent to it.

I'd leave the 10 shield for forest bonus alone, 20 sheilds would seem to breed gardeners...

I agree & it makes the Industrious Civ Bonus (already powerful) even more powerful. Maybe have gardeners take a little longer planting forests too so original forests are more valuable & what some claim is the forest exploit won't be abused.

Originally posted by monkspider
--- Improves the much maligned Expansionist civs by adding a new unit, the Squatter. The Squatter is a slightly-cheaper version of the settler with an extra movement point.

Good idea, but couldn't you think of a better name? My dog squats when he takes a dump.
squat - v. - To sit in a crouching position with knees bent and the buttocks on or near the heels.

-Babylonian Bowman upgraded to 2-1-2 rather then 2-2-1

Again, isn't this unfair to the Egyptians? Their chariot is 2-1-2 & costs 30shlds... Bowman is 20.

-The Great Wall now reduces corruption and gives 4 culture each turn

The Great Wall did need something more, but I don't see how a wall reduces corruption.

-Army Corps of Engineers: Infantry and Mechanized Infantry can perform the Build Forstress, Build Road, and Clear Forest/Jungle commands.

A military guy even posted they cannot build roads or clear forest/jungle. I agree about the build fortress tho.

[Elucidus]

Any Ideas to improve the other useless (or near useless) civilization traits. What is militaristic? Barracks are cheaper? I don't recall, it's way past my bedtime.

[monkspider]

LOL! It is ironic Pyro, most of the changes you suggested, I already included last night while working on version 1.4


- inspite of it not seeming right to only get ten shields for the destruction of an entire forest, i will most likely revert back to the default on this one, due to it's lack of popularity

-Renamed squatter to colonist

-Babylonian bowman reverted back to default statistiscs

-The great wall still stunk even after giving it the ability to reduce corruption, so it will gain a new ability in the next update.

-The "army corp of engineer" functions have been dropped due to the AI not being able to take advantage of them

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Elucidus
Any Ideas to improve the other useless (or near useless) civilization traits. What is militaristic? Barracks are cheaper? I don't recall, it's way past my bedtime.

I have found militaristic to really be pretty good. They offer higher percentages of unit promotions and offer cheaper barracks, cheaper SAM sites, cheaper harbors, cheaper airports, and possibly another improvement or two. Expansionist was really the only ability that needed a lot help, from my experience at at least.

[Jahi]

I had a few comments about the two new wonders you added

first, civ stops short of any future techs.. even fusion power was removed from the tech list (civ 2 had it). keeping in that spirit I think the idea of a -Dinosaur Park- is a little far fetched. an alternative idea would be to (gasp, for lack of a better name) Disney land and make it a small wonder only affecting that city.

second, -Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band- . I’m not opposed to what this wonder does but its name. this may have been a cultural influence some years ago to a sizeable population in certain countries but it isn't any more. it was more a 'flash in the pan' so to speak or a cultural force that fell out of favor with the passing of time. before i get flamed on this one i mean i dont see this 100 years from now being something people learn about or even know about. some replacement ideas could be 'Broadway', the Library of Congress, the Sidney opera house, or Hollywood (I’m sure if I think about it I could come up with a few more).

everything else so far though looks really good in your mod.

[DarkMatter]

Hey Monkspider, how did you add a unit to the game? I've seen how to change certain units, but not how to add additional ones.

[Bubba_B]

Stinking Jarheads....

Hey Monk,

Please look into upgrading the Marine units. IMHO they are pretty worthless in the current settings. Maybe some kind of special forces unit or something. I dont know..........

Just a thought.

[Deathray]

Firstly, nice job with getting a mod out so quickly. It looks interesting. Personally I find the game pretty balanced unmodded though, so I won't be downloading yours probably.

Secondly, RE the stealth fighter:
In order to reduce the radar visibility stealthed aeroplanes have lots of weird angled surfaces. This makes them absolutely horrible to fly. You will not be looping the loop or even doing a simple roll in a stealth fighter. These things even have trouble turning. Stealth fighters and bombers actually mostly fly on pre-programmed orders. The pilot's main duty is just to drop the bombs and keep everything ticking over. I'm not sure about intercepts though, to my knowledge the stealth fighter isn't actually a fighter. I suppose if the things have missiles they could just give the pilot an intercept course and he would get one attack run. If the opponent avoided those first missiles the stealth fighter would be fairly screwed though.

[Steve Clark]

My first impression just from reading the changes suggests that you are making the game easier for human players at the higher difficulty levels. For example, changing the wealth to 4:1. Now you could possible have twice as much gold as you would normally have. It is one thing to have something like to create a fun, alternate game but to suggest that it becomes more balanced or a better challenge, cannot be assumed. Only through hundreds of tests using a variety of conditions can one declare that. But that is not possible since the changes are too numerous. The proper way of doing this, as Firaxis can attest to, is to make ONE change and then play on a preset game. Then repeat with another change, and then with combination of changes. That way you can see the cause and effect of such a change or changes.

But then again, I think it comes down to what kind of civ game do you want to play. Some feel that you should be successful in all strategies or that all strategies that you choose should lead to a win. You certainly can create a mod that does that, but you have to recognize its limitations. That's why I prefer to wait to scenarios. That way the events and conditions can be more tightly controlled.

[SuiteSisterMary]

Iwon't speak as to any of the changes in this mod, but I'll throw in a suggestion and a point.

Call the squatters 'pioneers' and make the icon a 'Westward Ho!' sort of covered wagon.

And if any military unit should be able to build roads and forts, it's the Roman Legions. :-)