Zones of Control... no, really...

[Easy Rhino]

So, I built a bunch of tanks. Built a bunch of infantry. Built a bunch of forts. Put the tanks and infantry in the forts.

Lots of bad guys run past the forts and ONLY VERY VERY RARELY do they get shot at by anybody, even the tanks!

Am I misunderstanding something about how this ZOC stuff is supposed to work?

ER

[PapaLenin]

I have the same problem. I got pikemen in forts and enemy running by and they NEVER hit

[Yoleus]

Fix, tweak, something in between...: is it in your (eventual?) patch Firaxis?
Of course, I do not hold my breath, but I could use a reply

[Yoleus]

At least some Apolyton CivIII player could drop down his perspective on opportunity fire... is it working, guys?

[Venger]

ZOC sucks

I like opportunity fire (bout time!) but the ZOC thing is atrocious.

First, in there IS NONE. That's just bogus.

Try this:

Make a line of troops one on top of the other. You've built a line, right?

Nope. You have to put another line behind them because of the way the grid is oriented.

It takes twice as many troops to make a line horizontally or vertically as it does at oblique angles. That's STUPID.

Gunpowder units should have a zone of control, PERIOD.

Gameplay bug #934.

Venger
P.S. Add ZOC, keep opportunity fire...

[LRotan]

I'm iffy on the ZOC thing. On one hand, I don't like it when I have a unit far off for some reason on a small stretch of land and the AI has the same. One of us is going one way, the other is going the other way, but neither of us can get there until one of us moves.

On the other hand, I'm tired of not having ZOCs in my own damn borders. Personally, I don't think individual units should have ZOCs, but manned fortresses within your cultural borders should. 1 square in every direction would be fine. The ZOC should not extend beyond your borders, though.

That's my take on it anyway.

LR

[SoHappy]

Initially I missed ZOC's as well, but more to the point I was just used to having them there. Now that they are gone I actually prefer it, as in peace time its culture that keeps people out (and it works) and in war, well hell there is no rules, in particular who says that if your enemy is standing in front of you then you have to smash into him head on, how about going around, outflanking etc. Makes it more interesting (and relalistic) as when I wage war I now have to ensure that my behind is protected and that I have backup troops and escape plans. I like it without ZOC's now!

[GePap]

Not sure about ZOC

I have had a very similar question about ZOC
In one fo my games, I had a mech inf on jungle, with a railroad leading out of an enemy city going by. Many times, but not all, when a cavalry tried to pass, my mech inf (not in a fort mind you) got a shot at it, tanking out a free hit point. In fact, this sort of situation, when my units- modern armor, marines, got a free shot at enemies trying to move by them, happened many times and never where these units in a fort- This could not have been abug in my game, and I would really like to know what the rules regulatingg this sort of thing are since getting those free shots was very usefull.

[Blaupanzer]

Haven't seen any "opportunity fire" by my folks, forts, coastal fortresses, or fighters to bombers. Manual says modern mobile units and units in forts have ZOC. Enemy runs by them like they do ancient units. Looks broke to me.

[Venger]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
Haven't seen any "opportunity fire" by my folks, forts, coastal fortresses, or fighters to bombers. Manual says modern mobile units and units in forts have ZOC. Enemy runs by them like they do ancient units. Looks broke to me.

Someone mentioned that opportunity fire doesn't work if a unit is fortified.

1) That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Well not really, alot of people in here things say dumber things...but it is still pretty dumb.

2) That would explain why you don't see them shoot.

3) I also wonder if a unit must have leftover movement from the prior round. I doubt this is the case though.

Anyone confirm the fortified=noZOC fire effect?

Venger

[LRotan]

It is strange. I had an invasion force of about 12 armor and as many mech infantry, if not a little more. At one point, I had them scattered about the screen and some of the Babylonian(enemy civ) troops darted past them on railroads trying to get to my territory and attack. Out of all the armor and mech inf I had, some of them took a shot at the passing units and some of them didn't.

At first, I thought it had something to do with elevation, as it seemed that only the units on hills\mountains were taking shots. But I didn't know that the units themselves are supposed to have ZOCs for opportunity fire. Now I'm not so sure. Hope someone can figure it out, 'cause I'm stumped.

LR

[Easy Rhino]

I've two two theories/questions about this:

1) I think it is worth doing some tests to see if a unit having fortified or moved that turn removes it's chance at a shot.

2) Has anyone ever seen an opportunity fire shot MISS? There's also the chance that the game doesn't annimate unsuccessful opportunity shots.

The way the ZOC system is describes sounds really cool. I just wish I could get it to work that way.

ER

[Ludwig]

Actually, I prefer a game where you have to deploy in line.

The REAL problem here is that the grid is made of squares and not hexes.

HEXAGONS, DAMN IT!

What is this, Chutes N' Ladders? We can't be trusted with hexagons? The combat, movement, and city radius rules ALL work better with hexagons, which have been used in simulation games since before there were computers. The person on the design team who demands square tiles is probably the guy who holds up his hand at production meetings and says, "Maybe we should make this a card game, instead. You know, the kids could collect the cards and trade them. And we could make it spooky - you know, those kids like spooky."

You wouldn't need "double lines" of troops in ANY deployment direction [Venger is right; that's stupid] with hexagons.

[Apolex]

Thank you Ludwig. Yes it is absurd, these stupid squares. Hexes would be FAR superior. I had hoped while waiting for CIV III that hexagons would be one of the improvements implemented; it just makes so much sense. Ugh. Guess not.

-Apolex

[Surgeon]

How about this.

Fix it so that Forted troops can take a (reduced strength) hit at passing ememy once per turn.

A 'RESPECT MY BORDERS' treaty.