Remove the 4 turn/tech barrier!!!

[Stuie]

Re: 3 turns

Originally posted by civ-n00b
3 turns, here you go. i couldn't get the whole screen, its not doctored or faked though. this is in regent, and everytime i've played i've been able to have it in the 3 - 6 turn range WITHOUT modifying corruption values.

No offense, but your pic proves absolutely nothing.

[TechWins]

That screenshot could very well be taken in the middle of researching a tech.

[David Weldon]

No offense, but I think you might have missed the point of my post. I explicitly mentioned that it is possible (though I've never had the opportunity), and thanks for the screen shot.

What would be even better, though, is a breakdown of your beakers/turn vs. # of turns required for each %science setting so that we can calculate how bad the 4 turn soft limit is.

[TechWins]

Something is wrong the site, all the posts are being scattered around. Is anybody else noticing this?

[Sevorak]

David Weldon,

I think what we're looking at is a VERY severe diminishing-returns formula. It seems to go one-for-one early on, but the the curve, as it is, flattens out dramatically at the 4-turn mark, and it appears to require quite a bit of science to push past it. I wouldn't call it a cap, then - that term is misleading, although it is quite a strategic barrier.

I agree with your sentiments. The problem is they can't linearize the curve without dropping the 32-turn cap at the bottom. I think they should at least improve the curve at the end, though, and allow faster tech at 100% spending levels.

-Sev

[Sevorak]

civ-n00b,

All that picture proves is that you had 3 turns left until you got Iron Working. I could have set Science to 10% to get it in 32 turns and took a screenshot on the 29th turn.

More convincing would be a Science Advisor shot that said "We've researched this: let us now research "something"(3 turns)".

-Sev

[civ-n00b]

=o

maybe i'll clear this up a bit:

yes, i'm starting on a new tech in regent, its not mid-research. it can be done, its just not the easiest thing. i entered a golden age about 20 turns after the SS and was getting my techs at 3 & 4 turns each once again (in medieval age).


yes, the posts do seem to be "scattered" ... i found my pic at the very end of this thread

Sev, i agree, but i thought of this a bit too late (and read this too late), as in after pressing enter on the "we've finished researching" screen. i browse this forum while playing, makes it less monotonous for me

[civ-n00b]

3 turns

3 turns, here you go. i couldn't get the whole screen, its not doctored or faked though. this is in regent, and everytime i've played i've been able to have it in the 3 - 6 turn range WITHOUT modifying corruption values.


hope the pic works this time......

[civ-n00b]

=\

Sev, i agree, but i thought of this a bit too late (and read this too late), as in after pressing enter on the "we've finished researching" screen. i browse this forum while playing, makes it less monotonous for me

"There seems to have been a slight problem with the database. Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser."
bah

[David Weldon]

Sev:

OK, "cap" is a poor term, but you'll notice I use "soft limit" instead . Anyway, testing has shown that the progression is exactly linear (i.e. build up enough beakers and you get the tech) anywhere between 32 and 4 turns. Exactly at 4 turns you hit some sort of exorbitant penalty.

In all my games this penalty has effectlively limited the progression to 4 turns (monarch and deity levels). I have never been able to get any tech, even super-old tech that I skipped because I didn't care, for less than 4 turns. I don't doubt that it is technically possible, and I don't doubt others who say they can do it (especially on easier levels), but do you see how I (and many others) perceive the penalty as equivalent to a cap?

I accept that it is a "brake" on science, but when you couple the fact that mid-industrial era is when it is easiest to finally get some surplus science to push beyond 4 turns with the fact that mid-industrial has absolutely no useful improvements or wonders to build, this really seams to push you into a "make war or waste your production" phase.

I'm sure the designers expected wars in this era to secure vital resources (oil and rubber), but I don't like being put in a position where it simply makes no sense to do anything except what the designers wanted or expected you to do. That qualifies in my mind as poor design.

[Sevorak]

Yes, it does sort of seem like many factors (not just the tech "cap") are forcing Civ players into a kind of game script that Firaxis appears to have dreamed up. Especially the mid-industrial war. Disappointing, but altogether not unexpected. All of these factors detract from replayability, which is something gamers love but is rarely a concern of corporations, since replayability does nothing for sales.

-Sev