Privateers, good idea, poor execution

[Genghis John]

I was jazzed when I first read about privateers, so you could attack enemy shipping and not have to pay the consequences.

This seemed to me to be the perfect stupid AI mop-up tool. You know, they keep sending ships into (or near) your territory, no matter how many times they agree to get out. Plus borders over water seem pretty useless anyway.

Privateers would be an excellent way of protecting the integrity of your empire, without having to risk war over that one galley that you just know has a settler on it heading for "your" continent.

The problem is I have never had a privateer win any fight with any other naval unit. Galleons, transports, and galleys can kick my ass.

Anyone else have this problem?

[smellymummy]

privateers are very weak. look at the stats! You need to make a swarm of them and use them in numbers to be anything close to effective. by the time you do build many though they are useless.

[Dis]

if I'm not mistaken the attack rating is 1. I laughed when i saw that. never built one. maybe an attack rating of 2 would be good and not too overpowering. might be worth a shot.

[Grim Legacy]

Yeah they seemed so weak to me that I never bothered. Especially since the Frigates, Man-O-War's and Galleon are abundant by the time you get them. I think they were Att. 2 before, but firaxis changed it at the last moment... perhaps 2 is too strong after all.

I don't agree with the uselessness of naval borders, though: they are respected by the AI and serve as a pleasant shield from coast-roaming vessels that slow down the game and look like they may spawn an invasion at any given moment.
The AI naval borders are nice too: makes exploring more difficult ("get out") and also heightens the value of the enemy territory map.

[SirSebastian]

try it!

I actually _tried_ Privateers... and the attack seems like more than 1 to me. They are not pointless! I probably just got lucky, and you probably just got unlucky. Remember.. at least you don't have those nasty terrain modifiers to deal with

[The Eliminator]

Colonization

The privateers in Colonization ruled, and when I heard that they were incorporated into Civ3 I was thrilled. However, after my first game and 5 of my vetran pirates were wiped out by a single Greek galley......talk about useles.

This is when I miss the Civ2 text files, it would be so nice to bump privateers up to 2 or 3 attack.

[Venger]

Avast ye scurvy mates...

Privateers are a KICK A$$ concept. Just done as poorly as possible though...

First...I was hoping the Privateers would actually have a special power...like being able to capture ships, capture cargo (enslave units on board as workers), etc. But NO...

Instead, we get a unit that couldn't sink an inflatable dingy.

Oh, and you can use the Civ3 editor to increase the attack strength of the privateer to 2. I already did that. But I won't use them. They just suck too much. I'd rather build a frigate.

Now if they gave them REAL privateer abilities...

Venger

[Trifna]

Privateers are pirates working for the government (officially or not).

Like it was the case against Spain or Portuguese with their full of gold galleleons.
So I guess privateers should be adapted to when they are meant to be used... Or why would some pirates attack with an inferior technology if they were of the same time?

As I know, they built fast little boats that were faster than galleys ans such (which were so charged that they were seriously slow). So they could go next to it and attack.

[Kc7mxo]

What I hate most about privateers is that %#&%# governor builds them in any port city when i'm not looking.


What I like about privateers? um. . . . . . they would sink easy if the ai was stupid enough to make them? hmmm . . .. they disband really easy?


What firaxis should have done, is make it possible for you to build a privateer type of several differnet ships. so you could have privateer destroyers, privateer frigates. . . that sorta thing. just make them cost a LOT more. This would have been useful

so many possibilities. well, maybe they'll be fixed after we'red done beta testing.

[Venger]

Yo ho Yo ho

Originally posted by Kc7mxo
What I hate most about privateers is that %#&%# governor builds them in any port city when i'm not looking.

NO ****!!! Everytime I crank out an Ironclad, the governor decides a privateer and it's one attack strength would be useful. Geez... again, obviously not playtested...

What firaxis should have done, is make it possible for you to build a privateer type of several differnet ships. so you could have privateer destroyers, privateer frigates. . . that sorta thing. just make them cost a LOT more. This would have been useful

Only up to the frigate era - you may argue ironclads with me, but either way, privateering went away with the advent of the frigate. After this, the world was too small for countries to get away with Letters of Marque and privateers. Piracy was dead... but until then, I like your idea - trireme's, galleons, frigates, etc. For an extra, what, 20 shields, you can create it as a privateer which can capture units and ships. I like it!

so many possibilities. well, maybe they'll be fixed after we'red done beta testing.

He he... I hope so. But something like this may require too much of a rework. God I need about $500k to publish my own game...

Venger

[player1]

Since Privateers are normaly more powerful then Caravels,
they Should have stats of 2/1/4, and Caravel should have defense of 1.

That way Privateer could easly destroy Galleys & Caravels, but it would be tough to attack Galleons & Frigates.
Also if Frigates attacks Privatter, guess who wins?

[Venger]

Originally posted by player1
Since Privateers are normaly more powerful then Caravels,
they Should have stats of 2/1/4, and Caravel should have defense of 1.

That way Privateer could easly destroy Galleys & Caravels, but it would be tough to attack Galleons & Frigates.
Also if Frigates attacks Privatter, guess who wins?

Actually, galleys were often HEAVILY cannoned. So I don't mind that the galley has a 2 defense to fight a 2 offense (modified) privateer. Of course, if the combat system worked better, the good strategy would be to pick off some ships with a privateer to become elite then tackle ships with whom you are evenly matched, that way the expertise bonus worked in your favor... you'd take some damage but win the day.

Venger
P.S. I still want a capture unit option on privateers...

[player1]

GALEONS not GALLEYS, galleys were the first ship in this game 1/1/3, right. Anyway I only said that Caravel should have defense of 1, since it's not in any way superiour to Privateer.

[Badtz Maru]

You need to remember that a unit in this game does not represent one ship, airplane, horseman, whatever - it's a group of said unit type, in some cases it probably represents a variety of forces - an infantry unit probably has some jeeps and supply trucks with it, along with medics, mortar, etc. A battleship unit probably represents a battleship and some smaller support vessels.

Privateers did not go around in large fleets like more organized military vessels. The best way of looking at it is to see the privateer unit as a small group of ships appropriate for the tech level at which you can build it, while a galleon unit is a larger fleet of galleons, along with smaller support ships. That would explain why the pirates are so much weaker than the military vessels, and why pirates in real life avoided military fleets and concentrated on isolated vessels.

I think the best use of pirates would be to blockade a port. Let's say an enemy civilization has gained access to a strategic resource via a city that is separated from the rest of it's empire (like the various European colonies in the New World). It's only connection to the distribution network is via it's harbor. You want to cut them off but you don't want a war with the civilization, which perhaps is on the same continent as yourself. What you would do is produce some privateers and send them to harass the opposition's shipping, just like various nations did throughout history. They did not use privateers to attack the enemies naval forces, they went after cargo vessels. Since the game model doesn't use actual caravan-type units to handle trade, it is assumed that there is a constant flow of cargo ships travelling between your harbors and the harassment is modeled by blockading ports with privateers. Once your opponent responds by sending it's navy the privateers will have to leave or be defeated, but when the military presence leaves they can come back.

[player1]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
You need to remember that a unit in this game does not represent one ship, airplane, horseman, whatever - it's a group of said unit type, in some cases it probably represents a variety of forces - an infantry unit probably has some jeeps and supply trucks with it, along with medics, mortar, etc. A battleship unit probably represents a battleship and some smaller support vessels.

Privateers did not go around in large fleets like more organized military vessels. The best way of looking at it is to see the privateer unit as a small group of ships appropriate for the tech level at which you can build it, while a galleon unit is a larger fleet of galleons, along with smaller support ships. That would explain why the pirates are so much weaker than the military vessels, and why pirates in real life avoided military fleets and concentrated on isolated vessels.

If you look from that piont of view, then Privateer cost should be 20, not 60 shields.


P.S.
One HINT: Firaxis said that they will look that Privateer problem.