Final Verdict on Strategic Resources

[SGB]

They should change it so that you can trade for a resource in another civ before they have the tech to use it. That is damn annoying. Otherwise, I think it is fine.

[Enigma]

I always play really aggressively in the early game, longbowmen and spearmen work fine for me when I need to conquer another civ. I like to do the following-
1.Ancient era- grab land
2. Medieval era- start teching for...
3.Industrial era- develop industry, develop cities
4.Modern era- use that infrastructure to
A.Attack
B.Build the spaceship

I know it sounds basic but that is how the ages seem to break down to me.

[mmike87]

I agree that the best solution would be to make resource frequency a parameter the user can select, with higher score swarded to players who choose to have less resources.

It is frustrating to have neither iron or horses, and makes for a difficult time. I ended up losing when I was in this situation, as even with my efficient road system (I was the Romans, after all) I was not able to move Infantry (spearman mostly) to the hot spots fast enough to keep up with the onslaught of Knights. Once the Knights penetrated my perimeter, they used my own roads to their advantage, and easily over ran my empire. I destroyed many of my own roads, but it was too little, too late.

Another possible solution would be that even without a resource, you could still get the unit, albeit at a much higher cost (perhaps to reflect the cost of buying on the open market..) and once you secured a resource or traded for it the cost would go down substantially (buy locally...)

Just my thoughts. Overall, I like the game. But I think it may need some tweaks, and Sid's crew has always been pretty good about that. I remember a long series of patches for Civ2 that even added some new features.

[Blackadar1]

It's funny, but those of you saying the resources are perfect and calling folks whiners about them will be the first to ***** when playing a multiplayer game and finding out that you have no access to oil and having no way to get some.

You can sometimes sneak by without horses or iron. It's not easy, because you can't build an offensive unit worth a darn, but it can be done. Being in the industrial/modern era without oil is a death sentence.

My biggest complaint is that there aren't "alternate" units that can be built without resources that are workable, especially in the late stages of the game. I'd love to see a couple of units built like Bronze Swordsmen (2.2.1), which could at least defend your empire. And perhaps tanks (12.10.2), bombers, transports and destroyers that can be built with ethanol. That at least gives the player some ability to compete without the resources, albeit with a handicap.

[yin26]

Only a masochist would play an MP game on a random map. Still, that could be fun, too, if you think about it. Would add a whole other demension to the diplomacy, ya know? =)

[Cyanide]

Okay, damnit, first of all, why didn't anybody say resources can just suddenly be found, ala SMAC? If somebody did, or implied it, you have my apologies. That was a very pleasant surprise when, out of the blue, there was iron in them thar hills (well, mountain)!!! This only slightly impacts my complaint, though. Missing two resources of the same "era" with an aggressive opponent breathing down your neck is quite sweat inducing. Personally, I think certain resources should be on pretty much any continent - saltpeter for instance. What's so special about this that or the other continent that saltpeter can't exist? I suppose an arctic climate may hamper it, but that's all I can think of.

Concerning more modern resources, coal, oil, and rubber, I would normally be howling for blood when none of these were within my grasp - which is to say on or near my "main" continent. BUT, by the time these resources are available, I've usually got so much of the map explored, that I know where to hit to take some. A small rubber war is kinda fun.

Normally, I eschew "realism" arguments about Civ*, but I just want to make a small, more common sense argument. Horses are portable - that's one of the neat things about them. They are able to be bred and thrive in many different environments - as was said before, the American introduction to horses is a perfect example. It would've been nice if, once you've either encountered them or traded for them, you could somehow plant your own horse resource - don't know how this would've worked exactly. Maybe a stable city improvement or something. Probably unimplementable now, though. I'm not saying this would work for any other resource, even some of the easier luxuries. Just horses. Although, an argument for synthetic rubber or fossile fuels is justified to me. I'm not asking for the sun, the stars and the moon - just the moon will suffice.

I think I need to add that I don't dislike strategic resources. Not at all - I was looking forward to them when I learned that they would be in the game. I just think some of them should be a bit more common on the map. Horses, for example, as opposed to uranium. I've seen some maps that would be positively glowing with radiation - perhaps that's why there weren't any horses; they all died of radiation poisoning.

[yin26]

Okay, damnit, first of all, why didn't anybody say resources can just suddenly be found?

LOL! Well, we figured you understood that! Seriously, that has been one of the Firaxis tag lines: "That silly looking barren tract of land could well turn into the most precious field of oil on the entire map!"

That's what they are shooting for here ... the 'sweat factor' you mention. The bitter sweet ups and downs of resources and who 'unfairly' gets them.

[PatriotPlayer]

"That silly looking barren tract of land could well turn into the most
precious field of oil on the entire map!"

So what must you do to make them pop or do they pop themselves? I've seen them pop by themselves but then maybe I did something I wasn't aware of.

I'm playing a standard map and there is no coal on it at all, 100% explored, no coal for trade or to be found. I checked every square. You want rubber I have 5, you want iron I have 4, I even see a mess of oil that I'm going to go after. I've needed coal since about 1500 and it's the early 1800's now.

Fine if they want to make certain good units dependant on certain resources but not something as basic as railroads. I still think that resources should superceded by tech later on such as coal becoming available with steam and then much later in the tech tree "deep mining" or something like that will allow you to use coal without have the map resource. That would also give you another path to consider.

[yin26]

Once you discover the requisite technology, the resources will appear on the map. Now, sometimes that means it might still be missing from the parts of the map you can see ... or cities can be accidentally founded on top of the resource, making it hard to see as well.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Ludwig
I only have one complaint about the resource system:

As it stands, if I have the required resources for long enough to START constructing a unit, it doesn't seem to matter if I subsequently lose the resource.

Example: During turn X, I have a single horse resource, and have all my cities building cavalry. At the beginning of turn X+1, I lose a city, and lose the horse resource along with it. Despite this fact, all of my other cities merrily continue along building their cavalry units.

If you lose the resource, you should lose the ability to build the unit, even if the unit is under way. I actually would favor having you lose the invested shields - but I know many people would find that too punitive. I'd settle for being forced to change to producing another unit.

presumably, you have built 'strategic reserves' for that short building spree. once you are mobilized, you really can build tanks in 1-2 turns so after you churn out that first wave of units (and your resources are cut off) you pretty much have to send rifleman and cavalry out there....

re: cities on top of the resource....
1) ctrl shift m (clears map)
2) f2 button and you can see where a resource is if you hold the mouse over it

[Cyanide]

First, I've been somewhat convinced by some of these arguments. I continue to believe, though, that the chances for a strategic resource needs to be improved just slightly. A slight improvement can have long, and far reaching results. But I must agree with the above complaint about coal. No coal on an entire map is BS. And coal is too important, solely because workers need it to build railroads (which is stupid!). Railroads are too important, because they're the only way to improve irrigation - without farmlands, starvation is too common a threat without railroads.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by Cyanide
First, I've been somewhat convinced by some of these But I must agree with the above complaint about coal. No coal on an entire map is BS. And coal is too important, solely because workers need it to build railroads (which is stupid!).

We just had coal miners' strike. 'Bringing the country to a halt' has a whole new meaning, believe me

[Pyrodrew]

4) The AI knows. Watch where it builds its lame size-1 border cities next to you. They came with Caravels, with Galleons to found their bordertowns... and lo and behold: 500 years later it turns out there 'happened' to be uranium and aluminum in the territory those towns used to occupy. Hmmm.

If the AI knew it would build roads to these resources. In the game I'm in now the Zulus have TONS of spices in their territory... and not a single road goes to any of them. Japanese have 3 tiles of gems... no roads to any of them. And this is when Gunpowder is about to be discovered! The AI is as blind as a bat.

[cort]

well listen to this;

france was leading in all aspects; population, production, military, tech.. wiped out Persians, Zulus, Chinese from their continent, babylians the next.

me, being indians were lucky enough to stay away from their bloodlust thanks to the ocean seperating two continents. not being able to build a single wonder though, wondering how to deal with miss joan ..

well, the discovery of oil couldnot help much. even though they were technologically more advanced and probably at the edge of advancing to the modern era, there was not a single oil within their continent.
what i did, quickly captured two oil fields from my long term foes japans, and established a trade embargo against french with the germans who were the only other oil provider (not aware at that time of course)
after a couple of tens of turns, i had been advanced to flight & mass production, enabling my carrier fleet full of bombers sailing towards Paris

[Fidel]

oh no
THE GAME IS BROKEN!!!!