Final Verdict on Strategic Resources

[Hans2]

Playing random maps your going to get screwed once in a while, deal with it. If you must have a perfect game every time, play only pre-made maps.

On the number of resources available, my jury is still out on this one. On the one hand I agree they should be scarce-ie not enough for every nation. But on the other hand, I think there should be enough to at least trade around. In times of peace I don't think there's ever been a time when one country refused to trade a resource as vital as say oil or aluminum to another. If there's less than on oil per civ, everyone else is going to be screwed no matter what, especially if more than one of the few oils are under the control of the same civ.

[smellymummy]

Originally posted by dexters
In fact, the game's best all round unit is Infantry, a unit you can get with no resource requirement.

Same goes for Rifleman. A good unit for the industrial age, no resources required.

Infantry is a fantastic unit, but it does require rubber!

Rifleman is also a great unit, and requires no resources... Good on defense, cheap to build, and can keep you in the game.

About resources on different continents, look at horses and the real world: America had no horses while the europeans, etc, had them. look at the difference of power, culture and advancement between the two continents. and what happened when the cultures met in the 1500's. So it's not unrealistic to not have all the resources and can very well happen. Oil is just another example...

also, you may want to try the indians as a civ. They can't build knights (theres your horses and iron) but they can build war elephants, which require no resources at all. All you need to do is tuff it out until you discover chivalry

[Fidel]

resources are awesome. sometimes, however, i would like AI to behave like it should, that is, be desperate.
france was leading in the score and started a war with iroquise. that was my only chance. now i give iroquise some cool techs for modern armor, give them rubber (they had oil). french do not have rubber but have oil. i have excess rubber.
now i would NOT trade them rubber anyway coz i wanted iroquise to pummel french while i build the ship. however, french wanted to give one measly tech for rubber. cmon! they had to field cavalry and rifleman against iroquise modern tanks. they should give me 1000+ gold, tech AND per turn gold for that. needless to say, they quickly lost a couple of cities.

soren, do you have any idea how this can be tweaked? it could really add to the game....

[cort]

come on guys.
do not complain about the resource system. you are NOT SUPPOSED to have every one resource within your territory. This is what the game is all about right? if you dont have one, you should get it through TRADE. make strategic allies and buy what you need.
Not any one nation in the world has gone through the single rambo guy style and been successful, ok.

fraxis please do not listen to these little boys complaining, they will learn.

[Fidel]

i am not complaining. i love the resources system.
the only thing i would like to see is AI being desperate for them when it should (that is, when survival is at stake)

[Sikander]

I have a quibble about the realism of the resources chosen for the game. Horses are organic, and should be available to anyone who can trade for or steal a seed herd. The American Indians are a great example of a people who started on a continent without horses, and who relatively quickly created their own supply. This is a bad example of a resource, as it can be quickly replicated in whatever numbers are necessary.

Iron, how can their be a shortage of iron on a continent? Another bad idea for a resource as far as realism is concerned.

With the later resources, I would rather have seen a market driven system, where oil, aluminum etc. is available if you are willing to spend more than next guy for it. During war time you might be able to cut off an enemy from his supplies, but it is next to impossible to keep a state completely shut off from these major resources during peacetime if they are willing to pay the required price. Unfortunately everyone is a major player in Civ, there are no desperate third world countries whose economic survival depends on their ability to sell a strategic commodity. One of the things that is broken in the game is the fact that by the age of imperialism every bit of land has long been controlled by one of the major empires. This might be realistic to some extent for the relatively short period of history where colonial powers were able to wrap up a large percentage of the earth's surface, but that did not last very long, as these same powers were forced to give up most of their acquisitions in the late 20th century. There is nothing like this in the game.

[Fidel]

the only real issue is: does the resources thing make the game competitive and fun? i think it does, big time
wonders of the world are also highly arbitrary thing, but they are fun. i mean, does JSBach's cathedral really make 10% of population content or is sun tzu's academy really a virtual barrack per city. abstractions, but fun abstractions
resources system makes you really fight and hold on for territory and your empire does not look like confederation of cities anymore. plus you really feel what embargo means

[Gdiguy]

for the most part, i think the resource system is increadibly cool, and adds a very interesting depth to civ3...

having said that, a few of them need to be made a little more common... especially coal. For some reason, i've found coal to be one of the hardest resources to get, and while not being able to build a few units isn't all that bad, not being able to build any railroads at all is increadibly devastating, especially late in the game...

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by Gdiguy
for the most part, i think the resource system is increadibly cool, and adds a very interesting depth to civ3...

having said that, a few of them need to be made a little more common... especially coal. For some reason, i've found coal to be one of the hardest resources to get, and while not being able to build a few units isn't all that bad, not being able to build any railroads at all is increadibly devastating, especially late in the game...

Yep the rarity of these things is a big surprise to me. Earlier indications had made it sound like the resources would be limited and finite, so you might have to weigh up the importance of building railroads against the number of ironclads you wanted to build. It seems to have become more of a random lottery as to whether you get any at all and how long they last.

[Grim Legacy]

Some notes:

1) Military-wise, there is no substitute for lack of resources. Being stuck without Oil and Rubber means the best troops you can muster in the modern era are rifleman (4/6) and artillery (0/(12)). If you are in the lucky possession of Iron and Horses you may also build knights, otherwise Longbowmen will have to do (lol).
With these units, you have little chance against Tanks (16/10) and infantry. And never mind modern armor, bombers/fighters or radar artillery coming at you.
With coal, you can still build Ironclads to fend off the enemy battleships.

2) Otherwise, you have some options. I have so far been able to secure a short spree of resources from the opponents every time. In a particular game I lacked oil and rubber and only got coal very late (bonus resource sprung up), but I managed to trade all I needed. Dumb dealing on the part of the AI, because they could have slaughtered me easily before I got my hands on the oil and rubber I needed. Now, my cities are stacked with Mech Inf, Modern Armor and I have already built a fleet of Carriers, Battleships and transports. My airforce is building up too. All this in the limited timeframe (20 turns) I've been trading for the resources.

3) Resources seem to be more balanced that it seemed at first. I got some Ancient resources (iron, horses), but no industrial ones... but then I got Aluminum and Uranium (muhahaha two pieces even), giving me some edge back late in the game.

4) The AI knows. Watch where it builds its lame size-1 border cities next to you. They came with Caravels, with Galleons to found their bordertowns... and lo and behold: 500 years later it turns out there 'happened' to be uranium and aluminum in the territory those towns used to occupy. Hmmm.

[cort]

Originally posted by LaRusso
i am not complaining. i love the resources system.
the only thing i would like to see is AI being desperate for them when it should (that is, when survival is at stake)

oh!
i was not talking to you guy. they know themselves.
i agree that AI should be more willing to get a resource it desperetly needs. more aggressive, willing to pay more, etc.

[dexters]

Originally posted by Grim Legacy
Some notes:
.

2) Otherwise, you have some options. I have so far been able to secure a short spree of resources from the opponents every time. In a particular game I lacked oil and rubber and only got coal very late (bonus resource sprung up), but I managed to trade all I needed. Dumb dealing on the part of the AI, because they could have slaughtered me easily before I got my hands on the oil and rubber I needed. Now, my cities are stacked with Mech Inf, Modern Armor and I have already built a fleet of Carriers, Battleships and transports. My airforce is building up too. All this in the limited timeframe (20 turns) I've been trading for the resources.

I believe that's what the Japanese and Germans did. They imported oil and steel for their warmachines, and boy did they build a mighty warmachine.

[Jolard]

I agree that strategic resources should stay the way they are. They are one of my favorite things about the game. This works so well, and is a welcome addition. I love the fact that your whole strategic plan can change overnight, because you woke up one morning and realized you have no access to Saltpeter. Or you are doing great ignoring everyone else, and then have to start trading or invade to get a resource. Adds a whole extra layer which adds complexity and depth. Plus, I love the fact that you only need one resource of each type and can trade the rest away. Simplicity in appearance, but lends itself to complex interactions. I also like how this makes your civ's infrastructure so much more important. You have to have links between your cities, and you have to protect those links in war. Also allows for great new strategies when attacking other civs, cut them off from their resources, and they are crippled. Very nice

Please oh please do not change the resource system.

[Venger]

The original sentiment to the posts is pretty much where I fall - as long as normally abundant resources are indeed abundant (iron should be on every continent) and in reasonable quantities, I think it's a very good gameplay add on. Of course, in my one game ( STILL playing it ) I have access to everything but a few luxuries...

Still all in all it's likely a great move - nations like Japan have no oil and must import it. It changes how they act and interact with others (must maintain good diplomacy with oil producers, also will go to war to obtain it's own supplies).

Resources =

Venger

[Ludwig]

I only have one complaint about the resource system:

As it stands, if I have the required resources for long enough to START constructing a unit, it doesn't seem to matter if I subsequently lose the resource.

Example: During turn X, I have a single horse resource, and have all my cities building cavalry. At the beginning of turn X+1, I lose a city, and lose the horse resource along with it. Despite this fact, all of my other cities merrily continue along building their cavalry units.

If you lose the resource, you should lose the ability to build the unit, even if the unit is under way. I actually would favor having you lose the invested shields - but I know many people would find that too punitive. I'd settle for being forced to change to producing another unit.

My only other complaint is the opposite of the general complaint here: I think the resources are slightly too common. If you play on a huge map, the resource locations are coded into the map at the point of generation. If a couple of Civ's die before, say, Oil becomes visible, there's enough Oil on the map for the original number of Civ's. In my current game, I was dying to see the donnybrook that would erupt once the race was on to secure Oil supplies - among the 13 surviving Civ's out of the original 16, there's currently a lot of parity as well as some long-standing deep antagonisms. Unfortunately, there's 16 Civ's worth of Oil out there, allowing everyone to have plenty, so it's a big yawn so far. I'm hoping the wells start to run dry soon.