Nuke Salad

[Pyrodrew]

From the Soren AI Transcript...
You can't destroy enemy cities with nukes... Nukes do not destroy enemy cities... it used to work that way but it was deemed too powerful. so there is no way of doing it

Umm... someone tell that to Japan. Regardless of cities, someone mentioned a nuke not even being able to kill any of the 10 knights they dropped it on. It seems like a nuke is simply a $1billion cherry bomb which just makes lots of smoke. Why pay so much for it & risk so much (global warming & having the other AIs hate you) only for smoke? And if having it do more damage would be deemed "too powerful", couldn't you do other things to offset that power. Example - increase the production cost, increase the unit fee for nukes (instead of 1 gold/turn, 10 gold/turn), make it cost a population point or 2 (people leaving your civilization for making it), increase the odds that cities will now defect from your civilization for using a nuke, for each nuke used a protestor will appear in each town for x turns, make nukes unable to target capital cities, or... something.

But bottomline if someone puts a salad in front of me & tells me it's a hamburger... that doesn't make it a hamburger. Likewise, the Civ3 nuke isn't a nuke... it seems like more of a big expensive cherry bomb.

[Yoleus]

Agree!
You fascist bastards! We will now punish you with our superior cherry blossom bomb! The cute effect is so strong it may even kill one of your soldiers of a heart attack!

BTW, you thread showed one of the best titles in a while, IMHO

[Skanky Burns]

I agree totally though. And the Manhatten project shouldnt allow everyone to start their own nukes... the Americans certainly didnt hand out the schematics after they discovered how to make a nuke.

[Timeline]

Agree!

[Yoleus]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
And the Manhatten project shouldnt allow everyone to start their own nukes.

Right. Luckily now The Manhattan is a MINOR wonder, so everybody has build THEIR OWN before building nukes, at least this is mich better - and welcome.

[Haphazard]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns

the Americans certainly didnt hand out the schematics after they discovered how to make a nuke.

Not for a few years after WWII at least...

Spies would eventually get their hands on the info, so the Civ2 approach isn't too unreasonable. Minor wonder status to represent the infrastructure req'd is a fair idea.

[David Murray]

Haven't got the game yet--what exactly do nukes do, then?

In Civ2 they destroyed all units in a city, reduced the population by half and polluted some squares. They were pretty weak for my taste back then.

[Haphazard]

They're weaker now. Only 50% chance to kill each individual unit in blast radius. What's the difference between Tactical and ICBMs except range?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by David Murray
Haven't got the game yet--what exactly do nukes do, then?

In Civ2 they destroyed all units in a city, reduced the population by half and polluted some squares. They were pretty weak for my taste back then.

same as before, only they don't kill all of the units.

[derdede]

It might be slightly OT, but the same applies to cruise missiles.
I really loved those in CIV II. Long range, enough firepower to sink even a cruiser (which isn't all that unrealistic) and inexpensive. But now...
You can't put them in a sub !!!!!!!!
They aren't treated like a nuclear missile, nor like an air unit. Instead they are an artillery type of unit !
You have to put them on a transport, they have a movement of 2, and they aren't allowed to destroy anything.

They suck !

[derdede]

Oh, I forgot. Their range also sucks !

[David Murray]

Surely there must be some way to tweak the firepower/range/attributes etc of units in the game.

[mharmless]

Umm... someone tell that to Japan.

The civilopedia says that the 'tactical nuke' is a sub-five megaton yeild weapon. Compare this with the 'Fat Man' bomb droped on Nagasaki, which was was the more advanced and complicated of the two devices used. It was a plutonium implosion weapon, and had a yeild of about 20 megatons.

Nagasaki is still inhabited to this day, and in fact there is a lovely park at the point on the ground above which the Fat Man device was detonated. The destruction was immense, but it certainly did not wipe out the city. A five megaton yeild is pretty damn weak.


That being said, I wish at least the ICBMs packed some more punch. For me, the nukes fail the 'fun' test. Now SMAC nukes, those pass the fun test. My god, those were some extremely potent weapons =)

Edit:
Oh, and Manhatan project is definitly still a major wonder. The americans built it in my last game, and I was sudenly able to make nukes.

[Venger]

Holy scrweups Batman!

Originally posted by mharmless


The civilopedia says that the 'tactical nuke' is a sub-five megaton yeild weapon. Compare this with the 'Fat Man' bomb droped on Nagasaki, which was was the more advanced and complicated of the two devices used. It was a plutonium implosion weapon, and had a yeild of about 20 megatons.

Holy $hit you are wrong as all hell! 20 KILOTONS.

Nagasaki is still inhabited to this day, and in fact there is a lovely park at the point on the ground above which the Fat Man device was detonated. The destruction was immense, but it certainly did not wipe out the city. A five megaton yeild is pretty damn weak.

Holy $hit you did it again! 5 Megatons is weak? The US doesn't even actively deploy anything approaching a 5 Megaton bomb! Most yields are under one megaton.

Oh, and Manhatan project is definitly still a major wonder. The americans built it in my last game, and I was sudenly able to make nukes.

Well you got this part right.

Venger

[Trifna]

I agree. And I also agree that people in our own civilisation should not like to see us do so. There's always a little part of protestators when doing such. Maybe it would affect less in certain political systems, but stil, some wouldn't like. Maybe some other civilisations would have some of their citizens unhappy til they attack or do something against the one who used nukes??? Or some would ask for disarmement?