Question: Does AI know You're Human?

[dexters]

Soren said in the Apolyton chat that when declaring war, the AI simply looks for a good civilization to attack and it does not run a function to confirm if that player is human or not. That of course implies that the computer won't target you because you're human, they may target you for war for other reasons.

But here's a larger question for Soren or whoever is in the know to answer.

Outside of war, does the AI take into consideration you're civilization is human? For example, if you have Aztecs bordering you, does the Aztec AI look to see if your civ is a human or a computer?

In diplomacy, does it know who is human, or does the AI treat all civs as if they are just another threat?

The answes to these questions will certainly have serious implications about how Civ 3 runs. A great many games in the past had stacked the computer against the human because the computers of the time lacked processing muscle to pose a challenge. If the AI in Civ3 is indeed "human" blind , then it means it plays against you exactly like it would play against any other opponent, and that is a major shift in how we, as humans perceive ourselves in a Civ game. In Civ1 and 2, I've always felt aloof and different.

In Civ3, I'm starting to feel like I could blend it :P but maybe its just me

[Pyrodrew]

In my opinion, at higher levels the AI should know who the human players & treat them as a bigger threat. We human players always treat other human players as a bigger threat. A smart AI should do the same. Now I'm not necessarily saying attack human players more, just know they are a larger threat... if not by a military attack, a culture attack, or space race win, etc.

[Altuar]

Soren Johnson claims (and when he claims, it is) that the AI does not know humans apart from other AIs.

[dexters]

Altuar, yes, he did mention in the chat that when declaring war, the AI does not look up whether the civ it is declaring war on is human or AI.

But I've yet to read confirmation that the AI does the same for the rest of the game. This includes AI's dealings with a bordering civ, diplomacy between civs and trading. and so on.

[DaddyCool]

Here's exactly what Soren said on the subject in the chat (along with the question):

[Congestion] This has been semi-answered before, but once again, for the record: Does the AIs treat each other the same way as they treat the player, or are they biased against the player (in a Regent level game)?

[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] Congestion: The AI is essentially blind concerning whether a particular opponent is a human or an AI. For example, there is an AI_declareWar() function which determines who the AI would like to sneak attack, and nowhere is that function do I make a call to is_human() to see if a specific civ is AI or human.

I took it to mean that the AI never takes into consideration wether an opponent is human. The declare war thing was just an example, I think.

[jones]

Trivial way to check hmm? Simply analyze a savegame, run a turn, analyze the savegame. Then, switch the human player and run the turn again. Compare the resulting savegames

Such an experiment might be carried out if one were trying to get PBEM working with the current AI

[DaddyCool]

Heh....yeah...sounds reeeeally simple

I think it's even simpler to just believe the guy that wrote the AI.

[Kc7mxo]

Hmmm. Is the human player always the greatest threat? In my most recent game, a regent standard map with 7 opponents, I rule score wise, and finnancially, but the German - British Alliance dominates the world military, having recnetly put the screws to the indians. Heh, I just allied my own block, persians, japapnses and myself with them against the chinese. they're going down!

[dexters]

I've been to Walla Walla once in 1995 in our roadtrip down to Vegas :P

[Pyrodrew]

Originally posted by Kc7mxo
Hmmm. Is the human player always the greatest threat? In my most recent game, a regent standard map with 7 opponents, I rule score wise, and finnancially, but the German - British Alliance dominates the world military, having recnetly put the screws to the indians. Heh, I just allied my own block, persians, japapnses and myself with them against the chinese. they're going down!

That should have answered your question. If the human player has about the same or greater score compared with the leading civilizations, humans should be considered the greatest threat. Military is nice, but if the game suddenly ended your score makes you win... his military doesn't. But you do make a good point if a human player is struggling they shouldn't automatically be assumed the "greatest threat". Again I'm saying this only for Monarch/King, Emperor, & Diety levels & by no means suggesting the AI should be more aggressive against humans.

[Earthling7]

Fascinating!

I do indeed feel more "a part of the group" in Civ3 than I ever did before. If I was leading in Civ2, everyone would make mindless alliances against me, usually resulting in little or nothing. Now, they beat each other up as if I was just a dude in a field.

It seems that I get treated the same as everyone else in the game. Good and bad. That's very refreshing And the AI seems to be able to handle it.

[Yoleus]

You scummy petty humans! Prepare to be assimilated! Resistence is futile.

[dexters]

we'll see about that

[Dr. Nick]

Rather than ask "does the AI know me human" we should ask "does the AI know itself AI"

[dexters]

Hehe. Actually El Awrence, you're moving close to conciousness. If the AI knows it is an AI, then it is concious, and if it is concious, it could potentially feel threatened by human actions, and you could get this HAL situation going where your computer electrocutes your friendly Civ player because he is winning