Review of Civ3 by Yin

[Myrddin]

I score a zero and will be getting Civ III soon after its UK release

What was missing from Yin's review was the balance between having Civ III 'as is' NOW and having it with MP/editor/patches in 6 months time - just think of buying Civ III now as pre-ordering and participating in an open test if it makes you feel happier

[Trifna]

Way the go Yin

I always apreciate your criticism, should it be metaphoric or not

[HawaiiFive-O]

Nice review Yin, and your quiz method was unique.

I scored a +6, boosted by my utter lack of interest in Multiplayer.

It's a good game now. It will be a better game after a couple of patches. And I will buy the MGE the second it comes out (provided there are additional goodies other than just Multiplayer).

The fortunate thing is EUII comes out in about a week too, so I can't get burned out on either game. I'll alternate campaigns in each.

I'm in gamer heaven.

[yin26]

My thanks to all of you for the kind words about the quiz!

Yes, it was my idea. I sat down and said: "How can I write a review that allows me to show my measured disappointment yet be open to people either more or less critical than I am? Also, how can I help people of various expectations predict if they'll enjoy the game or not?"

A little while and many edits and practice quizes later: Yin's Civ3 Expectation Scale! LOL!

Anyway, glad you guys found it different and at least moderately helpful.

[Chowlett]

Good review. I score:

[-1]I want Civ3 to be Alpha Centauri +
[+1]I don't mind the absence of MP/Editor since I am confident they will come later and I am happy with single player now.
[+1]I accept bugs as part of the process and am willing to wait for patches.
[-1]I want all game concepts to be readily understandable and open to strategic manipulation in a clear and intuitive way.
[0]I like an AI that will press an advantage - but not necessarily all the time.
[+1]I like big weapons to be an important part of the game but not necessarily as important in game-terms as are their real-world equivalents.
[+1]I think good graphics and sounds are important but not a defining part of the game.
[0]I believe a manual should have good detail, but I realise that due to late additions, it cannot be correct in all areas
[+1]I think the interface is good enough if I can learn it rather quickly, even if it's a little quirky.
[+1]I accept that the end game will necessarily see longer turns ... even very long turns ... though I hope for patches if needed.

+4 - hmm, when I did this 2 nights ago, I was -1...

Ah well, call it +2 or so. Reasonably accurate. I'm aware of every bad point you mention, and I can cope. You and Korn have made up my mind, I'm buying CivIII. Rest assured I won't hold it against you...

[hexagonian]

Good method Yin - I tested out at a (-2) - so based on that, I should enjoy what the game has to offer at this point in time.

However, I am still concerned about several areas - and since I have yet to get the game, the Forums are the only place to get a perspective on how things are working in it - so excuse any ignorance on my part.

1. Combat - There are a lot of reports about the combat producing more than normal skewed results, where ancient units win a lot against modern units. I do not think this will be patched in, as this will require a complete reworking of the model. However, this is an area that can be modded - provided that the editor is fixed.

2. Corruption - The one thing that troubles me are the reports that despite the necessary improvements built by a player, corruption is very unmanageable. It does not pay to set up on another continent. The thing is, that adjustments to corruption setting will also work toward the AI, so an adjustment in this area could make the game less frustrating for the player. He will feel that he is able to accomplish something, rather than beating his head on the wall after doing what he was supposed to do to limit corruption.

3. Culture - Again, this is one area where there are reports of players doing the right thing to maintain culture, and then losing a city to a culturally inferior city - as well as getting no warning whatsoever that he will lose his city and all troops in it. Face it, when the most attractive option in capturing a city is to raze it (and this seems to be the norm), something is wrong. Once again, frustrating...

4. System requirements. I have a PII-350 with 192 RAM, and there are reports about the incredibly long wait on turns on systems more powerful than mine. I refuse to go out and buy a new computer for the sake of a game, especially when the system I have works well for everything else I play.

5. The lack of promised features. Do I want to buy a game and then have to fork over additional money for a good editor? I am hoping that this will be patched in.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Just to give you my prespective on the below:

Originally posted by hexagonian
Good method Yin - I tested out at a (-2) - so based on that, I should enjoy what the game has to offer at this point in time.

However, I am still concerned about several areas - and since I have yet to get the game, the Forums are the only place to get a perspective on how things are working in it - so excuse any ignorance on my part


1. Combat - There are a lot of reports about the combat producing more than normal skewed results, where ancient units win a lot against modern units. I do not think this will be patched in, as this will require a complete reworking of the model. However, this is an area that can be modded - provided that the editor is fixed.

I agree, we have to wait for the editor, but there is hope

2. Corruption - The one thing that troubles me are the reports that despite the necessary improvements built by a player, corruption is very unmanageable. It does not pay to set up on another continent. The thing is, that adjustments to corruption setting will also work toward the AI, so an adjustment in this area could make the game less frustrating for the player. He will feel that he is able to accomplish something, rather than beating his head on the wall after doing what he was supposed to do to limit corruption..

Soren said that this will be (most likely) addresses in the first patch. plus I don't think that all players who are complaining are using all the options available like forbidden palace and WLTK day for example.

3. Culture - Again, this is one area where there are reports of players doing the right thing to maintain culture, and then losing a city to a culturally inferior city - as well as getting no warning whatsoever that he will lose his city and all troops in it. Face it, when the most attractive option in capturing a city is to raze it (and this seems to be the norm), something is wrong. Once again, frustrating.....

I can't wait to get the game and see this for myself, but this seems like a potential gameplay problem

4. System requirements. I have a PII-350 with 192 RAM, and there are reports about the incredibly long wait on turns on systems more powerful than mine. I refuse to go out and buy a new computer for the sake of a game, especially when the system I have works well for everything else I play.

apparently a lot depends on the system compatibility and drivers, there are many people who play at older machines and the game runs well.

5. The lack of promised features. Do I want to buy a game and then have to fork over additional money for a good editor? I am hoping that this will be patched in.

that is suckage but dang I know that initially they said MP will be patched.

[ProfessorPhobos]

About those long turn times....is anyone holding down Shift? Supposedly it speeds it up quite a bit. There's also supposed to be a hot key to make it so you don't have to hold down shift to speed up the other guy's turns, but I haven't found it yet.

[Stuie]

Wow Yin! You've actually impressed me with your extremely insightful and accurate rating scale. This is great for people that don't have the game yet and want to guage their potential reaction - it really seems to work! Go figure.

I'm a +5 for the record, mainly due to the "+2" I got from the multiplayer question.

[SnowFire]

Re: Review of Civ3 by Yin
[*][-1]I want Civ3 to be Alpha Centauri +
[*][+2]I will only play single player, so with MP/Editor or without, I will simply play.
[*][+2]I am used to bugs and don't really care if a patch is released as long as it's playable.
[*][-1]I want all game concepts to be readily understandable and open to strategic manipulation in a clear and intuitive way.

[-1]I like an AI that, if it has an advantage, always presses it.
[*][+1]I like big weapons to be an important part of the game but not necessarily as important in game-terms as are their real-world equivalents.
[*][+1]I think good graphics and sounds are important but not a defining part of the game.
[*][-1]I think a manual should be thorough, accurate and stuffed with vital information about all aspects of the game.
[*][+1]I think the interface is good enough if I can learn it rather quickly, even if it's a little quirky.
[*][-1]I think game turns should be swift from beginning to end.

According to your list, I'm +2, but I'm in absolutely no hurry to get the game, mainly because my weights on these things would be radically different than yours. I mean, I don't care about MP, so the fact that Civ3 shipped without MP means nothing to me, certainly not a plus. And I like good manuals, but if the game is good, I'll forgive. Same with lack of bugs.

[Cyclotron]

[/0]I want Civ3 to be Civ2 +

Never played AC...

[+2]I will only play single player, so with MP/Editor or without, I will simply play.

I suck at all things muliplayer

[-1]I want the game out of the box to be without any major bugs that affect gameplay.

No excuses. Beta should have found any major bugs.

[-1]I want all game concepts to be readily understandable and open to strategic manipulation in a clear and intuitive way.

This is vital to any good game, esp. a TBS.
If I can't understand it, it bores me.

[-1]I like an AI that, if it has an advantage, always presses it.

Bring it on, Soren!

[+1]I like big weapons to be an important part of the game but not necessarily as important in game-terms as are their real-world equivalents.

If they were like in real life, you could never use them without being obliterated. How's that for fun

[+1]I think good graphics and sounds are important but not a defining part of the game.

Civ2 was good enough graphics for me. More is nice, but not an absolute.

[-1]I think a manual should be thorough, accurate and stuffed with vital information about all aspects of the game.

There's nothing I like more than reading a good manual.

[+1]I think the interface is good enough if I can learn it rather quickly, even if it's a little quirky.

A TBS this detailed can't be a user interface heaven. It's got to be good, but realistically I expect some initial clunkiness.

[-1]I think game turns should be swift from beggining to end.

If i wanted to wait, I'd play chess

Hey, I got a 0... sounds good to me. There should be some good patches out for Christmas (I hope) so I guess I'll still get the game this December. Your system is pretty good, Yin!

[DickK]

Yin -- nice job on the analysis (much more that a review)! Personally, I score about 0 -> -2. I'm enjoying the game but I'm very disappointed with many things. This release is more polished than the first Beta of SMAC but not as polished as the final one.

SMAC vs. Civ2 was far bigger improvement than this is. Civ3 is not a bad product but it also contains fewer innovations and improvements. It also shows a number of surprisingly "rookie" mistakes as you so aptly put it.

The in-game video sequences may be mainly eye-candy but the fact they're missing should have meant that the same time and effort went somewhere else, but it really doesn't show. I just don't get the same "wow!" feeling at all -- and I've never stopped enjoying several of the video/audio sequences in both games no matter how many times I see them. Taken alone that wouldn't be a big deal but for this and other reasons Civ3 fails, in my view, to establish the same kind of engrossing environment that Civ2 or SMAC did. As a result, at this point, I don't put it the same same class as either of those.

But I'll wait and hope to see how it really turns out after the Beta test

[Comrade Tribune]

Great review; ingenious method!

I score a -2, just like yourself, though not always for the same reasons. My first impressions of the actual game are slightly better, in the +1/+5 category. But my opinion is still forming here, I am a pretty slow player -still at my 2nd game-, and I will need to play at least 4-5 games to really make up my mind about if I rate CivIII a 6.5/10 or a 9/10 -that would be about my range, mostly dependent on how competent the AI turns out to be.

[yin26]

FYI: I have decided not to play the game anymore until some serious patching is done. I fully understand there are those of you enjoying the game, and I won't get in your way.

Frankly, after a few more days of intense play, I simply find Civ3 horribly tedious, dull and buggy. And no: I won't be on these forums ranting about it, either.

[Steve Clark]

Can you say "burnout"? Yin (and perhaps many others) are exhibiting the classic symptom of over indulgence. It's like diving into a vat of chocolate and gorging yourself until you are sick of it. Too much of a good thing (like the one-more-turn feeling which yin admitted to) can turn anyone against it. Now you know why I usually approach all new games slow and easy. In the 10 days I've had Civ3, I only put in 8-9 hours total (still on my first game). I will not get burned-out from playing Civ3 or any other game because the fun factor is the most important thing for me. I always try to maintain a high level of fun factor and if that means playing slow and rotating games, then that's what I'll do. Take a break, many of you have been over-indulging and thus have lost perspective. Just my advice.

On a related note. The Civ3-General forum has degraded into a complete waste of time. That is to be expected since about now, the burnout factor is showing. Hopefully in the next month, many such folks would be weeded out (as in, go elsewhere) and what we'll have left are those that can play Civ3 for fun, despite its quirks (just like what has been going on the past few years in the Civ2 forums). Personally, I will wait patiently for the scenarios, for that when the real fun begins for me.