Atn: Firaxis - Request For Some Features In Next Patch

[Timeline]

UPDATED LIST 11/06/01
Hello,

This thread is intended to be as helpful as possible to the game developers of Civ 3, and it is my hope that the information here will be useful in making Civ 3 just a little easier to use, and more fun to play.

Here is the list that Apolyton gamers have compiled as of 11/05/01:

Expanded Gameplay Features:

1) Stack Move: Many have felt that the ability to move units in stacks would be VERY helpful, almost necessary for late game play.

Problem: Given that there are usually considerably more units in this game than in previous Civ games, the one by one movement of each unit can rapidly become a mind numbing proposition.

Suggested Solution: Please allow for stack grabbing and moving. No combat advantage is needed or requested, but we need ability to move more than one unit at a time.

2) Ability to see active agreements from foreign advisor screen.

Problem: Currently, there is no way to see all your all active agreements in one place, and it becomes quite tedious to get a list of all the agreements you have at one time by visiting each ruler one at a time. Another fact that culminates this problem is that your active agreements are always changing.

Suggested Solution: Create a link/button on the foreign advisor screen that will bring up a list of *all* current diplomatic agreements and the turns left before they can be canceled. Also, the ability to cancel from this screen would be helpful.

3) Ability to see what resources ALL other empires have. The ability to see ones they are using or trading to others or even receiving from others.

Problem: The only way to know what resources another empire has (but cannot trade) is to search the whole map looking for specs of rubber and oil. And there is no way to know if/what they are trading to other empires, or if/what they are receiving from others.

Suggested Solution: Make it possible to see other empire's active trade agreements. This can be done easily on the Trade screen. Make it so when you click on an empires name in the "can trade with" box, all their resources (local, Imported, exported) pop up under the "trade agreements" box, rather than yours.

If anyone has a hard time understanding what I mean just ask, and I will Explain better and post a pic.

4) Link to the Civilopedia from city build queue.

Problem: You need to exit city screen and then goto Library and find the unit/improvement you are looking for, just to see what is does.

Suggested Solution: A link that will take you right to the specific entry in the Civilopedia for the item you select.

Gameplay/Balance Tweaks and Features

1) An escort mission for bombing runs.

Problem: It will (hopefully) be somewhat possible to protect your airspace once fighters work how they're supposed to. However, it has remained almost impossible to use bombers with any effect against the AI once they have fighters set up, that is, unless fighters can be used to protect bombers. This is something that should be looked into as many gamers have expressed frustration.

2) Allow Bombers and Fighters to have a random chance of scrambling if they are sitting on an aircraft carrier that is attacked.

Problem: Iron clads taking out a carrier-full of fighters and bombers - need I say more? IRL Carriers are currently the most powerful and effective naval combat vessel on the seas today - but that aside - what fun is it to have a weak, slow, unit, that is almost worthless?

3) Privateer too weak for balance against other ships in it's time.

Problem: Simply put, players don't seem to be using them because they are too weak.

3) Nukes must be slightly increased in effectiveness.

Problem: It's driving people crazy, and no, they aren't going to get used to it. As mentioned Cruise Missles do more damage than nukes more times than not, and a group of artillery is actually capable of doing more damage than the nuke itself. Also, nukes are increadibly expensive for their use - the result? People won't build them after long.

Suggested Solution: Increase the chance of military units in blast area of being killed. I would recommend 75% chance for each unit, and 20% for Missles. The Pop damage and pollution currently caused by a nuke is just fine, I think most agree, they just need to have a better chance to kill some units.

4) Allow an army to attack more than once in it's turn.

Problem: With separate units you get to attack 3-4 times, but with an army you can only get one attack which sometimes slows down what would otherwise be a succesful conquest of a city. - Peterk

Suggested Solution: An army should attack as many times as there are units in the army. If you have 3, it attacks three times. - Jason Beaudoin


Bug List

Game Breakers:

Human controlled fighters can't shoot down AI planes. (Covered here)

Possible Breaker:

100 million dollar bug, here - Warning: contents may prove disturbing to some viewers

Corruption, see here and here for details.

Minor

Air units can Re-Base outside their area of operation.

Shift-I for worker automation doesn't seem to work.

Civilopedia bug, here

The well known bug of the city advisor screen that refreshes on you after you select a list priority.

Other Bug Threads

There have been many. I am trying to bring all the important stuff under one thread, but these others must be looked at:

Good points, a bit of ranting:
Ten Gameplay Fixes

Another patch thread that got burried: The 1.1 patch list

[MxM]

Re: Atn: Firaxis - Request For Some Features In Next Patch

deleted

[Timeline]

hmm, I'd like to thank you for that very informative and helpful response, any other ideas or comments? LOL


Firaxis may just suprise you

[Timeline]

2: Ability to see active agreements from foreign advisor screen.

Yep, this would definently be helpful. I was just now looking over the interface some more, and a ONE place where we can see ALL our active agreements is very much needed. One button at the bottom of the advisor screen would do the trick. Well, I am still waiting for someone to comment on this.

[Talenn]

On the left side of the unit by its 'health meter' is a stack of tiny white bars that appear when units are stacked. Each bar is one additional unit, but you have to get out your microscope to see them.

Hope it helps.

[Timeline]

ah, that helps alot, thanks! Man that sure is tiny! But better than nothing

Are there any features *you* think should be added?

[kimmygibler]

I would be good to see what resources other civs have. The only way now is to search the whole map looking for specs of oil. Mabye once you get an embassy, you can see them?

I also wish there was a way (mabye there is) to choose colours for the different civs. I was playing where my enemy was yellow, and my allies were like bright yellowish green. It was a huge pain in the 'neck.'

The random maps seem to be wierd. I play on the islands one all the time, but I never start on an island! I'm always on a huge contenant with like 3 or 4 other civs. I would prefer if island random maps started everyone out on their own island. Also, lack of rivers can be a problem. I mean in ctp you always started out next to a river. It makes sense since early civilisations probleby could not live in an area with no fresh water.

[Talenn]

Hmm, yeah, I have a 'wish list' already...

Note that I have only played the game for a few days (obviously) and have never really gotten past the Industrial Age yet so some of this may change....

1) Bring back 'Firepower'! I really dont like the return to the totally random combat of Civ1. Luck should be a part of any combat, but the ridiculous BS luck that is evident and the complete upset victories (Tanks losing to Musketeers etc) should be suppressed if possible.

2) Dont make the Strategic Resources so all or nothing. If you dont have em and cant get em (for whatever reason) you should still be able to build the units/improvements that need them but at a greatly increased cost and/or in limited quantities. For luxuries its not as critical as there are workarounds but for strategic resource, you can be completely broken through no real fault of your own....I dont care for that much total luck in my games, I guess.

3) On the 'Corruption' issue: Its a really simple solution IMO. Just make corruption decrease over time. This can be either on a per City basis so the longer you have the city, the less corruption hurts or (preferably) based on tech levels...ie, once into the industrial and then on into modern ages etc, corruption becomes less of a factor. It's ridiculous that nations like those that actually exist(ed) in our world cant realistically exist in the game. 'Corruption' shouldnt be a 75% factor in a 'Nationalistic' world...it just isnt that big of a factor in the real world. A simple reduction of corruption based on time would easily end most of the complaints.

4) Workers: Make them either a) cost more, b) have a higher upkeep or c) be less necessary. I am VERY hesistant to turn them over to the AI and the late game micromanagement of these guys is a nightmare. The cost is so low that is there is very little game reason not to use them en masse but the tedium keeps me from doing so. Strategy decisions should not have to be influenced by outside factors such of how much a hassle it is to implement your ideas through the interface.

5) Stack Move: This one might already be there and I just cant find it. If its not, it should be there. Given that there are usually considerably more units in this game than in previous Civ game, the one by one movement of each unit can rapidly become a mind numbing proposition. At least allow for stack grabbing and moving. Again, if this is already there (except for the extremely rare 'Armies') please let me know how its done.

6) Naval Units: This is pure personal preference and dreaming, but I'd like to see more functionality for naval units. Currently they are completely unecessary for even massive sea based trade. I'd like to see some sort of abstracted 'commerce raiding' or somesuch built in where you could either deduct shields or commerce or cash from a Civ's stockpiles by use of ships. As it is now, they are simply glorified transports and artillery pieces and not necessary for any form of true 'sea control'.

I'm sure other items will come up the more I play, but the top ones are this list are my biggies. Also not included on the list but something that is HIGH on my list of wants is MULTIPLAYER FUNCTIONALITY. Much of all of this strategizing and planning and optimizing is totally moot without the ability to directly pit your ideas against those of other players.

Thats about it for the moment...

[Temujin69]

My 2c

1) Allow bombardment to KILL units. It seems rather strange that my fleet of 20 bombers and stealth bombers have bombarded London for the past *40* turns and dropped the population from 12 to 1 but London still has 12 FULLY healed units. What the heck kind of 'realism' is that? London and Tokyo were obliterated by bombing runs. Millions were killed along with their defending army.

2) Some sort of AI to prevent "luck" wins. If one unit is TOTALLY out classed, it should have NO chance of winning. How the heck did my elite Modern Armor lose to a regular Hoplite? Seems rather stupid to me to have a bunch of guys using bronze weapons beat the crap out of a legion of heavy tanks. Or having a galleon beat the snot out of my battleship. Something is going on here!

3) Ability to delay diplomatic wins. Yes, I DID build the spaceship, but I don't want to launch. Why? Becuase NO one else has the technology to build it! I WOULD like to play longer and still keep score. And NO, I don't want to vote for UN Secretary-General. Don't ask me every round!

Thanks for the nice game but some issues from Civ1 still have to be dealt with.

[LRotan]

1. The ability to remove items from the construction queue would be nice as well. It may be there, but I haven't figured it out yet. Kinda sucks building up a queue only to recieve an advance or resource that makes them obsolete before they're done.

2. I'm with the bombardment issue. It can't kill units and fails half the time. Considering that's basically all sea units can do anymore, other than destroyers losing to galleons , it definitely needs tweaking.

3. The incorporation of pirates would be cool. Got barbarians on land and occasionally in galleys, so why not pirates roaming the seas? That would give a pretty good reason to have a decent fleet. Also, along those lines, the barbarians in my own personal experience aren't much of a threat. They can attack whatever they want whenever they want and they'll fail all the time. It'd be more of a challenge if they actually posed a threat. They also just disappear at a certain point or whenever all the land has been consumed within borders. I liked the Civ II method of barbarian raids throughout the entire game upgraded to match the current technology, though they failed constantly in Civ II as well. Maybe it's just me, though.

4. More realistic AI attitudes. It seems kind of odd to me that two civs can be at war for any length of time and then be best friends two turns after they sign a peace treaty. You should have to work at getting them back on your side over a period of time instead of throwing 300 gold at them to make them happy.

5. The fact that the AI usually ignores borders has been covered extensively already, so I'll just give it a mention and leave it.

6. Real fortresses. Not sure this can be incorporated with a patch, but maybe with a mod or something. In addition to cities and small fortifications, the ability to build castles and military bases would be a bonus. They could produce military units in some limited fashion and "guard" a certain radius, meaning if a rival steps foot in that radius, it would be an immediate declaration of war and the units within the fortress can respond. Just something along those lines. Might go a long way toward solving #5.

LR

[Timeline]

Originally posted by Talenn
Hmm, yeah, I have a 'wish list' already...

Well, you're right, that IS quite a wish list! In this thread I'm not looking to request any unreasonable OR "wishful" items, by features, I mean things that are neccesary for game functionality. Balance issues, bugs, and personal preference don't belong in this thread.

Thanks for your post however and I will go over it item by item:

1) Bring back 'Firepower'! I really dont like the return to the totally random combat of Civ1. Luck should be a part of any combat, but the ridiculous BS luck that is evident and the complete upset victories (Tanks losing to Musketeers etc) should be suppressed if possible.

That's not a feature, if Firaxis were to fix this it would be a bug fix. This isn't a bug thread.

2) Dont make the Strategic Resources so all or nothing. If you dont have em and cant get em (for whatever reason) you should still be able to build the units/improvements that need them but at a greatly increased cost and/or in limited quantities. For luxuries its not as critical as there are workarounds but for strategic resource, you can be completely broken through no real fault of your own....I dont care for that much total luck in my games, I guess.

This is a very good idea, but it is a game balance issue... all your ideas are good though, and I hope Firaxis sees'em.

3) On the 'Corruption' issue: Its a really simple solution IMO. Just make corruption decrease over time. This can be either on a per City basis so the longer you have the city, the less corruption hurts or (preferably) based on tech levels...ie, once into the industrial and then on into modern ages etc, corruption becomes less of a factor. It's ridiculous that nations like those that actually exist(ed) in our world cant realistically exist in the game. 'Corruption' shouldnt be a 75% factor in a 'Nationalistic' world...it just isnt that big of a factor in the real world. A simple reduction of corruption based on time would easily end most of the complaints.

Covered elswhere, game balance. Does need fixing though, this is a bug.

4) Workers: Make them either a) cost more, b) have a higher upkeep or c) be less necessary. I am VERY hesistant to turn them over to the AI and the late game micromanagement of these guys is a nightmare. The cost is so low that is there is very little game reason not to use them en masse but the tedium keeps me from doing so. Strategy decisions should not have to be influenced by outside factors such of how much a hassle it is to implement your ideas through the interface.

Well, I would say just use one of the many automated worker features. Page 197 of manual.

5) Stack Move: This one might already be there and I just cant find it. If its not, it should be there. Given that there are usually considerably more units in this game than in previous Civ game, the one by one movement of each unit can rapidly become a mind numbing proposition. At least allow for stack grabbing and moving. Again, if this is already there (except for the extremely rare 'Armies') please let me know how its done.

Okay, while it is rare they will listen to a request like this, this is VERY needed, you are right. I will add this one to the list. No, there is no way but armies.

6) Naval Units: This is pure personal preference and dreaming, but I'd like to see more functionality for naval units. Currently they are completely unecessary for even massive sea based trade. I'd like to see some sort of abstracted 'commerce raiding' or somesuch built in where you could either deduct shields or commerce or cash from a Civ's stockpiles by use of ships. As it is now, they are simply glorified transports and artillery pieces and not necessary for any form of true 'sea control'.

See page 84 for info about naval blockades.

Thanks for the post.

[Timeline]

Re: My 2c

Originally posted by Temujin69
1) Allow bombardment to KILL units. It seems rather strange that my fleet of 20 bombers and stealth bombers have bombarded London for the past *40* turns and dropped the population from 12 to 1 but London still has 12 FULLY healed units. What the heck kind of 'realism' is that? London and Tokyo were obliterated by bombing runs. Millions were killed along with their defending army.

Yep, your right, of course. That is a game balance issue. I am thinking of making two lists...

2) Some sort of AI to prevent "luck" wins. If one unit is TOTALLY out classed, it should have NO chance of winning. How the heck did my elite Modern Armor lose to a regular Hoplite? Seems rather stupid to me to have a bunch of guys using bronze weapons beat the crap out of a legion of heavy tanks. Or having a galleon beat the snot out of my battleship. Something is going on here!

Yes, I feel for you, that is terrible!! This is game balance, but should be corrected.

3) Ability to delay diplomatic wins. Yes, I DID build the spaceship, but I don't want to launch. Why? Becuase NO one else has the technology to build it! I WOULD like to play longer and still keep score. And NO, I don't want to vote for UN Secretary-General. Don't ask me every round!

Okay, this is a good one . . .

How does this sound: ability diplomatic wins with spies (cost gold?) But can't delay it past the few last turns?

Something is NEEDED because the computer uses that ONE path to win a bit much, think we need some balance. I am starting a new list.

[Timeline]

1. The ability to remove items from the construction queue would be nice as well. It may be there, but I haven't figured it out yet. Kinda sucks building up a queue only to recieve an advance or resource that makes them obsolete before they're done.

Shift - Delete.

2. I'm with the bombardment issue. It can't kill units and fails half the time. Considering that's basically all sea units can do anymore, other than destroyers losing to galleons , it definitely needs tweaking.

You're right, combat needs major tweaking. The ability for a bombardment to KILL a unit would be nice. I think if a unit is near death, there should be a random chance it is killed.

3. The incorporation of pirates would be cool. Got barbarians on land and occasionally in galleys, so why not pirates roaming the seas? That would give a pretty good reason to have a decent fleet. Also, along those lines, the barbarians in my own personal experience aren't much of a threat. They can attack whatever they want whenever they want and they'll fail all the time. It'd be more of a challenge if they actually posed a threat. They also just disappear at a certain point or whenever all the land has been consumed within borders. I liked the Civ II method of barbarian raids throughout the entire game upgraded to match the current technology, though they failed constantly in Civ II as well. Maybe it's just me, though.

Hmm, try turning up the Barbarian level, and play on a larger map. Maybe this will help.

4. More realistic AI attitudes. It seems kind of odd to me that two civs can be at war for any length of time and then be best friends two turns after they sign a peace treaty. You should have to work at getting them back on your side over a period of time instead of throwing 300 gold at them to make them happy.

Hmm, they will backstab you later, they just wanted the gold, hehe. Wouldn't you do the same thing?

5. The fact that the AI usually ignores borders has been covered extensively already, so I'll just give it a mention and leave it.

Yep, ok.

6. Real fortresses. Not sure this can be incorporated with a patch, but maybe with a mod or something. In addition to cities and small fortifications, the ability to build castles and military bases would be a bonus. They could produce military units in some limited fashion and "guard" a certain radius, meaning if a rival steps foot in that radius, it would be an immediate declaration of war and the units within the fortress can respond. Just something along those lines. Might go a long way toward solving #5.

Sounds nice, but then you would be at war with every AI that crosses your borders, heh. Oh well, a good idea for a mod anyway.

[Melloj]

Speaking of fixing the bombing, I think that the whole Air Combat system needs a bit of rework.

Did you ever see any of your fighters intercept an enemy bomber or fighter? I had a jet in each city set to air superiority and I had WW2 bombers bombing all my improvements to hell ever single time!

Yet when I try to bomb to the enemy....Vrrrooom...rat-tat-tat-tat, down goes my bomber in flames.

Frustrating as heck.

[Timeline]

Yin 26, let me ask you what you think of this idea, since you have become a regular player of the game....

3) The ability to see what resources ALL other empires have. The ability to see ones they are using or trading to others or even receiving from others.

Problem: The only way to know what reasorces another empire has is to search the whole map looking for specs of rubber and oil. And there is no way to know if/what they are trading to other empires, or if/what they are receiving from others. No Way At All.

Suggested Solution: Make it possible to see other empire's active trade agreements. This can be done easily on the Trade screen. Make it so when you click on an empires name in the "can trade with" box, all their resources pop up under the "trade agreements" box, rather than yours.