The list of missing standard features.

[Kautilya]

While I think the core gameplay is decent, I am quite disappointed with the sheer number of features which are standard in these kinds of games which have been left out.

Most of these are familiar but I think it's useful to make a list to get an idea of the magnitude of the problem. Also it might be useful for people who haven't followed the game closely.

I am using SMAC as the standard for the most part but many of these features are there in Civ 2/CTP2 as well.


1)No Multiplayer
2)No scenarios
3)No tech poster. And to add insult to injury they added the crappiest poster imaginable in the LE.
4)No wonder movies.
5)Incomplete scenario editor
6)Can't fix starting positions in scenarios.
7) No cheat mode. This was useful for strong players to give the AI some advantage and for weak players to gain an advantage. While you can make adjustments before the game with the editor you apparently can make adjustment in the middle of the game any longer
8)Can't change warning preferenes. The only preferences that you can change seem to be audio-visual ones. You could customize preferences a lot better in SMAC.
9)Basic info left out of manual: I may be wrong here but there doesn't seem to be any table with information about city improvments; their costs and benefits etc.. The SMAC tables were organized much better.
10) Really crappy world maps.

Some of these things will be patched hopefully but I don't think it is right to include standard features only in patches. For one thing downloading pathces can be a pain especially for those with dial-up connections. For another at the time of release there is no guarantee what feature will be included later.

Not all these things are important but if you add them up there will be at least a couple of features which are useful to someone. Overall it's impossible to deny that the game was rushed.

Any other "standard features" that I have missed?

[Ray K]

Re: The list of missing standard features.

Originally posted by Kautilya

1)No Multiplayer

You guys need to understand and accept that turn-based games are not conducive to MP. That is what RTS games like Warcraft are for.

2)No scenarios

Yeah, this sucked. But the mod community is usually going to make the best ones anyway.

3)No tech poster. And to add insult to injury they added the crappiest poster imaginable in the LE.

You know, this WAS insulting. Four screen captures! Probably the absolute worst tech poster in the history of the series.

4)No wonder movies.

That's really just one-shot eye candy for most players. I don't miss them.

5)Incomplete scenario editor

They said they will improve this with a patch.

6)Can't fix starting positions in scenarios.

Agreed; this is lame.

7) No cheat mode. This was useful for strong players to give the AI some advantage and for weak players to gain an advantage. While you can make adjustments before the game with the editor you apparently can make adjustment in the middle of the game any longer

Well, I never used the Cheat mode to improve my position, but I did use it every once in a while to verify that, yes, the AI is beating me by cheating!

8)Can't change warning preferenes. The only preferences that you can change seem to be audio-visual ones. You could customize preferences a lot better in SMAC.
9)Basic info left out of manual: I may be wrong here but there doesn't seem to be any table with information about city improvments; their costs and benefits etc.. The SMAC tables were organized much better.

Not big issues for me.

10) Really crappy world maps.

Someone has already fixed this in the Civ3-Files forum.

Some of these things will be patched hopefully but I don't think it is right to include standard features only in patches. For one thing downloading pathces can be a pain especially for those with dial-up connections. For another at the time of release there is no guarantee what feature will be included later.

Not all these things are important but if you add them up there will be at least a couple of features which are useful to someone. Overall it's impossible to deny that the game was rushed.

Any other "standard features" that I have missed?

PUBLIC WORKS!

I know CtP is maligned by Civers, but it did have some really nice features. Public works was near the top.

And don't forget the Theocracy and Fundamentalism governments. Those were good ideas, too.

[Kyle]

1)No Multiplayer : Couldn't care less...

2)No scenarios : No biggie, the two that came with Civ2 were't that good. The players make better ones.

3)No tech poster. And to add insult to injury they added the crappiest poster imaginable in the LE.: Not sure what you wanted. It was the tech tree, shown on four or so panels. It's actually useful since it's not some huge poster.

4)No wonder movies. : Hmm, wondering why they never started up.

5)Incomplete scenario editor : Don't use it, but it'll be fixed I'm sure.

6)Can't fix starting positions in scenarios. : Indeed, can see where this can be annoying, but out of the gate, it's not a big deal. I'll be playing straight up games for a long time.

7) No cheat mode. : Agreed.

8)Can't change warning preferenes. : Not clear as to what you're talking about here.


9)Basic info left out of manual: Damn, still haven't had a chance to even look at the manual.

10) Really crappy world maps. : Haven't used them yet.



Some good points, but some are nitpicky. And I have to agree with Ray K. Public works definitely should've been included as an option.

[Christantine The Great]

1) I won't even try.
2) Make your own. The ones that came with MGE were considered crap by lots of people.
3) You really don't need a poster anymore. Unlike SMAC and CivII you can see the entire tech tree instead of just tiny segments. I do admit, the LE poster was crap.
4) This was announced AGES ago and it does not deserve to be called a feature.
5) Read above.
6) Probably be in the up and coming editor patch.
7) Not a big issue. Get used to it.
8) Elaborate. What ones are big problems?
9) That's what the Civilopedia is for.
10) See 2.

[donarumo]

Considering none of your issues affect actual gameplay (something that has been missed by some people in these forums), I think "the magnitude of the problem" is small, very small.

Look, the addictive play is still there and has been extremely and pleasantly improved - that is what is important. The complaints you make will be non-issues in a couple of months.

[Setsuna]

I miss the cheat mode. It was fun for arbitrarily deciding that the enemy you're mopping the floor with could use a little reinvigorating.

"Hmm. The Russians are now the __Superdude Alliance__. Their leader is now __Pope Schlomo__. I'm giving them new technology and making them Fundamentalist."

*Adds 200 military units for the Superdude Alliance*


Besides, the real game never simulated *real* internal power shifts. :P

[Kautilya]

Um this wasn't supposed to be a list of personal complaints but just a list of missing features. I don't care too much about many of the things listed but other people do. Like I said they have left out so many standard features that someone is bound to be pissed off about one thing or the other.

Since these are standard features I don't feel that leaving them out of a high-profile game is justified.

[Setsuna]

Originally posted by Christantine The Great
7) Not a big issue. Get used to it.

Apparently it is, otherwise I wouldn't have heard of people who outright refuse to buy the game because of it.

[Pggar]

Originally posted by Kautilya
Um this wasn't supposed to be a list of personal complaints but just a list of missing features. I don't care too much about many of the things listed but other people do. Like I said they have left out so many standard features that someone is bound to be pissed off about one thing or the other.

Since these are standard features I don't feel that leaving them out of a high-profile game is justified.

I couldn't agree more. It isn't a "analyze the things I think is missing" thread.

I don't have the game yet, but a lot of people are complaining that there is no way to upgrade groups of units, you have to do it one by one. For those with the game, is this true?

[Ned]

I too think the lack of an automatic zoom to the city manager of a city in disorder is really annoying.

Also, and maybe I just don't know how to do this yet, but how does one see all the units stacked on a square, including what they are doing and what condition they are in? The reason I ask is that I moved a worker into a square with another worker already mining or irrigating, but I could not remember which. The new unit covered the one previously there so I could not see it or what it was doing. Clicking on the square simply brought up a list of options including whether I wanted to activate the other unit. But there was no information about what that unit was doing.

In Alpha Centauri, you had a window where you could see all the units on a square and what they were doing. But not having this information is a real killer, IMHO.

I am not very far into the game yet to give an opinion, but my initial reaction is negative.

Ned

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by Pggar
I don't have the game yet, but a lot of people are complaining that there is no way to upgrade groups of units, you have to do it one by one. For those with the game, is this true?

No. Shift-U upgrades all upgradeable units of the type you currently have selected. I think you need to have the unit in a city with a barracks/harbor in order to be upgrade it, so not all units will be affected by this command.

[Provost Harrison]

One thing I noticed that was missing was the actual physical presence of the great wall or great canal (latter not here any more). That would have been cool, but oh well.

[Your.Master]

Re: The list of missing standard features.

Originally posted by Kautilya
1)No Multiplayer
2)No scenarios
3)No tech poster. And to add insult to injury they added the crappiest poster imaginable in the LE.
4)No wonder movies.
5)Incomplete scenario editor
6)Can't fix starting positions in scenarios.
7) No cheat mode. This was useful for strong players to give the AI some advantage and for weak players to gain an advantage. While you can make adjustments before the game with the editor you apparently can make adjustment in the middle of the game any longer
8)Can't change warning preferenes. The only preferences that you can change seem to be audio-visual ones. You could customize preferences a lot better in SMAC.
9)Basic info left out of manual: I may be wrong here but there doesn't seem to be any table with information about city improvments; their costs and benefits etc.. The SMAC tables were organized much better.
10) Really crappy world maps.

1) Well, please go ahead and throw rocks at me, but I hope they don't get around to the Multiplayer in 3894 years. They can do other stuff to help the game, and then work on Multiplayer.

2) Yeah, that sucks, but not too much (few scenarios in any other civ, and they get made independently anyway). Hopefully we'll see some Firaxis ones come up for download, but don't cross your fingers - there are better issues to complain about for nw

3) Pretty bad. I hope for a printable one, now that it's too late. The poster was far easier than the Civilopedia, and better, and cooler. YOU EVEN HAD A POSTER IN TEST OF TIME! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!

4) I skipped those. Not too terribly important. Actually, further down my list than multiplayer.

5) NOW THIS SUCKS. But they are working on it, to their credit.

6) This also sucks, and I hope that goes into revitalizing the editor.

7) I liked cheat mode. I doubt it would be too hard to implement. I'm pretty sure the take-out was a conscious decision, which annoyingly means this probably won't be "fixed".

8) I wouldn't know, sounds cool though

9) A good Tech poster would have solved this issue.

10) Bah, humbug.

[Imran Siddiqui]

3)No tech poster. And to add insult to injury they added the crappiest poster imaginable in the LE.

Oh, come on. It isn't THAT bad. It is a decent looking poster (when you don't have the game running). Not anything as good as the SMAC poster, but not crap.

[TheDarkside]

Maybe you don't care about cheat mode but I relied on it!

I use it to edit the rate at which civs research technology. Everytime I used to play civ2 I'd make it much longer to research things, because I am annoyed with starting to build a state of the art unit which gets obsolete by the time its done being built. I really only like to play long slow-paced games so I have time to really get into the different periods of time. But in Civ3, theres no cheat mode, the editor is ineffective, and theres no simpel text file for me to edit to make the tech the way I like to play. If I can't find a way to edit tech so it takes a long time then I really can't play... I cant stand the fast paced normal way of playing.