Open letter to Firaxis...problems with Civ III

[dennis580]

Blackadder I feel everything you said is a POSITIVE not a negative. Why in the hell should you automatically get oil. The game wouldn't be any fun if it was easy to get the resources you needed. I feel the same way about war-time weariness, pollution, and corruption. These things are suppose to challenge you and hinder your progress. This is what makes the game fun.

[ElitePersian]

Originally posted by randomturn
oil makes the world go round. it has driven every conflict for 100 years, and everything in the modern world depends on it. I have no problem with Civ3 end-games being so oil dependent, or occasionally losing games that I was winning because of the situation Blackadar1 describes, as it means we have a more realistic game. I do have a few gripes but this isn't one of them.

Realism is good, but sometimes you have to sacrifice realism for playability.

[ElitePersian]

Originally posted by samsmithnz
I ahve a question regarding this oil/rubber thing. I don't have civ3 yet, cos i live down under, but what happens when you save just before you research oil? Does the oil resource always appear in the same place, or is it completely random?

Also, what happens when You discover oil, and you find it's only in your opponents land, but they are still in the dark ages and haven't discovered oil yet. Can you still trade for it???

Someone please answer this!!

[Martinus]

Originally posted by TheDarkside


Yes but enough to merit a disruption in the city's regular functioning? Just look at the overhwheming % of people in favor of war (up in 80s after first few weeks) Look at all the people who suddenly realized our country has a flag and decided to display it in any way they can. These riots you speak of nothing more then "peaceful congregations" in my book.

Yes, but the war has lasted approximately 1 month so far. One turn in modern era Civ3 equals 1 year.
The thing you are talking about is the "initial happiness". Wait and see what happens if a war in Afghanistan drags on for 5-6 years

[Peoux]

Originally posted by ElitePersian


Someone please answer this!!

If a civilization has not yet discovered the technology required to find a resource, they cannot yet trade with it even if it exists within their territory.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by randomturn
oil makes the world go round. it has driven every conflict for 100 years, and everything in the modern world depends on it. I have no problem with Civ3 end-games being so oil dependent, or occasionally losing games that I was winning because of the situation Blackadar1 describes, as it means we have a more realistic game. I do have a few gripes but this isn't one of them.

It's a huge overstatement to say that every conflict in the last 100 years has been driven by oil, when in fact the opposite is true in spades.The best that can be said is that there have been some conflicts over oil in the 20th century as opposed to none previously.

I am enjoying the game, but I do see the design flaw. The reason we are used to petroleum powered war machines etc. is because oil has been readily available for 150 years. Had oil been incredibly scarce it's not like we would have never done anything with the research time. Perhaps our tanks and ships would not be as powerful as they would have been with plenty of oil to power them, perhaps they would have been delayed in development, and perhaps they would have been nearly impossible to produce, leading warfare in a completely different direction. It just doesn't seem likely that a Civ which is developing the leading edge technologies would do so for techs it has no way of realizing.

[Provost Harrison]

OK, I have a problem with something which is a gameplay issue regarding special units.

Now you know you can upgrade units to the next by paying gold. Now I am playing the French and I have recently acquired gunpowder and I have tons of saltpeter within my border. So obviously, I can build musketeers in abundance. However, I cannot upgrade any of my previous units (spearmen or pikemen) to musketeers. Is there a problem here linking units in an upgrade line to the special unit? Is there a way around this, a fix I can use?

Thanks.

[ElitePersian]

Well i have a suggestion for a mod concerning strategic resources:

When a civilization doesnt have a certain resource on the map, for example oil, it SHOULD still be able to produce units that require oil, but in VERY LIMITED amounts.

Here is a scenario that would make this mod interesting:

for example lets say im playing as the Japanese, and the Americans are on a different island and they have all the oil, we are both equally advanced as far as science, however, the americans have a hold of oil, and i dont. Lets say the most advanced offensive unit i can produce at this time is Armor(tank). Now since i dont have oil, i can only produce say 6 of them, so i build those 6 tanks and i go to the americans' continent with 6 tanks (since anything less advanced wouldnt allow me to take over the oil source on their continent). I kill a couple of cities of theirs with my tanks and secure the oil source.
Now if i had to use any other unit that is less advanced, i would not be able to destroy their defenses in the cities i took over.

This balances out the game nicely, and implements the "invasion for resources" strategy.
Let me know what you guys think!!

[Nadexander]

Re: Open letter to Firaxis...problems with Civ III

Originally posted by Blackadar1
I wasn't strong enough, nor did I wish to, invade my competitor for oil.

Cry me a river, why dont you. Thats the story of civilization. Eithier you are strong enough to get what you need or you die. The probelm here isnt that oil was required. The problem is that you werent strong enough to take it. Get used to it. Three cheers to firaxis for modeling such a critical part of human history and adding a challenging and interesting dimension to the game.

-Nader

[Uncle Thade]

Here's my two cents for what it's worth.

Games that are frustrating tend to go on my never play again shelf. Civ II proudly resides on my HD along with Alpha. CIV III is shortly headed for the shelf or a refund. Here's why...

I enjoy the diversity in the game and the elements that make resources so important, but it's just that seems it is too important. After all this is just a game, isn't it? And playing a game where I have a less than 20% chance of getting the resources I need, and not to win, but just to be able to particpate or put up a defense. I truly think in the next patch Firaxis should address this issue. The resource angle is to steep a price to pay after playing countless hours on end and over 6000 years.

Here on lovely planet Earth, Oil is not found in just a few places, but on every continent. All continents have oil accesible and being drilled as we speak, it is just in what quantity we are able to extract it.

The elements that make up the programming for this in CIV III should assign some continents larger patches of oil and other continents less. Whereas, even though you may have oil, you would be limited in your ability to build more units requiring oil unless you went into armed conflict or peaceful trade. You should not be penalized if the AI doesn't want to trade with you or you are unable to get what you desire.

And I feel something like this should be patched, fixed, rigamarouled and what have you, not just on the oil issue but for all resources.

An example is, playing huge map with continents, 9 CIV's and in the year 1550 the only country with SALTPETER is France, five little piles of it with no country getting any and no country willing to take on the might of France. I am sorry but in my estimation SALTPETER became readily available by this time in our history and in such great quantity that muskets, blunderbusses, pistols, rifles, cannons and so forth were in great use by the time the 1600's rolled around. And many great nations had this resource and some hadn't even met yet.

The game is too resource reliant, and should have been an option in the set up screen, and not a tweak in the editor. I rarely use an editor because I like my fog of war and the next suprise over the hill.

I must say if I have to get stomped by the computer, I would like it to be a fair stomping and not a one sided issue. Had the same problem with CivII but in a different fashion, one nation ruling the roost.

And lastly, the AI should seriously be looked at - the death spiral is nagging this game heavily and there is nothing you can do but kiss your arse good bye. Hey I enjoy getting beaten, but if it's because the programming is too stringent and I must follow a certain path or else, it's just not worth it. I know there is more I want to say but I've been up for 18 hours playing and I need some sleep.

While I understand the you guys, (Firaxis) are proud of your game, I think it does need some looking at. Yes there are gameplay issues, and as always I know Firaxians will take it to heart and address them.

Still sitting on the fence, furtively sneaking glances at my shelf.

Uncle Thade

[ElitePersian]

Originally posted by Uncle Thade
Here on lovely planet Earth, Oil is not found in just a few places, but on every continent. All continents have oil accesible and being drilled as we speak, it is just in what quantity we are able to extract it.

Hence my suggestion for a mod - READ MY LAST POST PLEASE!

[Rakki]

perhaps a better approach would've been to increase the upkeep costs (say triple ?) for units which you don't have the resources to "supply" properly. This would reflect "black market" trading in resources or just that you don't have a convenient big source of oil or whatever, but is instead forced to draw upon little puddles here and there...

[ElitePersian]

Originally posted by Rakki
perhaps a better approach would've been to increase the upkeep costs (say triple ?) for units which you don't have the resources to "supply" properly. This would reflect "black market" trading in resources or just that you don't have a convenient big source of oil or whatever, but is instead forced to draw upon little puddles here and there...

Im gonna make a new thread including what you said, and what i said in the creations forum....ill credit you with your idea.

[Uncle Thade]

Hey Elite I am on hundrerd with you. At the very least if they see the number issues and oft repeated we will get some answers or fixes.

Uncle Thade

Gotta sleep later!

[Uncle Thade]

One Hundred :even:

Oops

Uncle Thade