Forbidden Palace - catch 22

[Grunthex]

Originally posted by LtChambers
I have to second Ray's plea for better fresh water placement. I think it was somewhat of a mistake in the first place to limit irrigation to freshwater only, as it results in the computer making huge grids of mines on GRASSLAND squares when freshwater is unavailable!
Thanks!

Hey! Nothing wrong with mines on grassland! Early game, there's not much to compare with a Mined grassland/shield tile. And prior to hospitals, the size 12 limit means you don't need too many irrigated squares (just a few to offset the decreased food from mined hill/mountain squares)... once you hit hospitals, you're at factories, and don't need as many.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by WhiteElephants
While the math that has been done is interesting it fails to consider that the amount of land worked per city and that amound of movement points per units remains unchanged. If one is to truly scale the game down I think these things must also be considered.

Regarding the issue of movement points, I´m well aware that it has been discussed often to adjust the movement rate of naval units to the map size. While I have an open mind in that respect (the gameplay effects need to be discussed further), I fail to see a connection between movement points and the level of waste and corruption.

The fact that the amount of land worked per cities is the same on every map size is a crucial point of my calculations. A map 9 times larger equals a number of cities 9 times higher, other things equal. And because the number of civs is only 4 times higher on the huge map, this allows for a number of cities per civ 2.25 times higher. I then concluded that this ratio should also be used in the 'optimal cities' setting. Assuming that the setting for normal maps (16 cities) was balanced, this yielded a result of 12/14/16/21/26 (that is, if one prefers integers ).

[Pyrodrew]

Assuming that the setting for normal maps (16 cities) was balanced, this yielded a result of 12/14/16/21/26

I would prefer if Huge's 32 was used as a foundation to calculate backwards & then find the x values for the other map sizes from that. Commercial Civ Bonus already won the Best Civ Bonus type... we don't need to make Commercial any more powerful.

I have to second Ray's plea for better fresh water placement.

Better placement is ok... but not more. I'm currently in a game at the other extreme. I'm on a island (yes huge map) where the excessive amount of rivers weakened my road efficiency so bad my roads almost useless until I discover bridges. When Tiny maps or Archipelago is chosen the chances of atleast a 1 or 2 square river should be increased, but not be found on every island (sometimes the dice don't roll in your favor).

Not enough rivers? I guess we'll have to use more sea harbours on those maps to get the extra food bonus.
Perhaps you need to change the settings in the map generation screen

Agreed. I think the # of rivers is fine. As I just said my current game is flooded with rivers (everything is on Normal). I believe Tiny Maps & Archipelago (and maybe dry) decrease the # of rivers. Seeing a few maps generated in the map editor shows this. 3Billion might be worse for rivers too since things tend to fall in more clumps with that age. I would like to see what a 2Billion & 6Billion World look like.

I just used the map editor to generate a Tiny Arid Archipelago map... and there was only 1 river on the entire map, right under a "Player Start". I wouldn't be surprised if this continued. Hopefully the patch will fix this.

I know that Tiny maps don't get much testing because the majority of Civers want huge, expansive campaigns. I like quick, tight fights where Ancient-Era combat can make or break your game.

Someone else just mentioned in another thread they wished the editor allowed you to slow down how fast tech was learned so they could experience the Ancient-Era combat longer. Hopefully they will provide that option.