Man am I glad that I.....

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Asher
I really don't know what most of those people are up in arms about.

Keep the faith Asher...we who love it outnumber them!

There are several reasons I see people trashing the game here, thankfully they are a minority. A very vocal one, but still a minority. What's interesting is that the vast majority of them HAVE NOT PLAYED IT YET. I discount them entirely. Their opinions are worthless.

So the others are in two types:

1) People having systems problems/can get it to run/isn't stable.

2) People who complain about the gameplay itself.

And I see them like this.

1) Yeah it sucks if it doesn't work on your system, but again, this is a minority of players. It works fine for most people. You can't blame Firaxis for all the compatability problems, as Asher said. They have admitted a few errors, but most of the ones I've seen reported are the fault of the people's systems and drivers. This is inevitable with any PC software product. Want a console game? Fine, buy them. But when you buy PC games, you'd better realize there will ALWAYS be systems that have trouble with it. My system runs CivIII fine, and it's a AMD 400 Mhx. I've had no trouble running certain games, and I've had trouble with others. I had a helluva time getting Diablo II to run at first. Others had no problems. This is just par for the course with any game.

2) A lot of these guys are the Civ players who were looking for Civ2.1 in terms of gameplay and interface. This is a different game, and you have to play it differently. The Gamepro review was a perfect example. This guy obviously only had cursory experience with Civ2. That's the only way he can call the gameplay changes superficial. The fundamental mechanics of how the game works have been changed. If anything, it is what has been left unchanged that is superficial.

Conquering strategy and expansion--totally different. Try and do it like Civ2, you lose. Diplomacy--very different. Actions have more far-reaching consequences and maintaining a balance between your friends and foes is more complicated. The corruption factor alone makes expansion and city-management a whole different affair. These guys sound to me like people who just aren't strategic enough to develop new strategies. Of COURSE in your first game you're not going to know how to handle different situations--it's a different game, and don't you WANT a challenge? Isn't having to struggle a part of what all civs really had to do in history anyway?

So these guys need to play the game more to figure out that their old hack ways of winning don't apply, and they will need to be more creative. I guess this is where new Civers may have an advantage. Can't teach an old dog new tricks, after all...

BTW, I'm in a terrifically competitive game just on Chieftan level now. I've started to understand the strategies needed to win battles more, etc...things are coming together nicely. I'm in 3rd place, too. That hasn't happened to me in Civ in ages! I love it...

But anyway, Firaxis was in Catch-22 with the civ fans, because they would get roasted no matter what they did. Implement ideas a,b,c and all the people who wanted x, y, z will ***** and moan because they somehow think it's THEIR game to dictate what gets in or not. And then those same moaners, who haven't even played, will harp on people's tech difficulties to further their point, even though these problems are an exception rather than a rule. I talked to Caleb at the Infogrames tech support for a minor sound bug (due to outdated drivers on my machine, btw), and when I asked if they were getting flooded with calls, he said no, tech support volume was fairly slow.

ANYWAY, I'm happy with the game, think it is not only fun but very rich and full of options. The editor is a real gem, even if it is "incomplete." Considering no other strategy game even comes close to including such a robust tool for changing almost ANY rule. I consider it a great perk!

So calm down guys...take the word of people who have played it and know...it's good!

Cheers

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by faded glory
Sheesh osweld was right

This forum is loaded with denial and non-objectionists.

I think I'm pretty objective. I do not tolerate spending money on bad games, no matter how much I may love the series or the concept. Ultima was one of my favorites, and I was excited for U9. It sucked, and I had no qualms about saying so.

I returned SC3K to the store and screamed for my money back because I found it to be a cartoonish, superficial update of SC2K.

I waited over a year for Star Wars: Rebellion. In very little time I was pointing out how much it stank.

I've also posted my gripes about Civ3 on this forum. There are a few things I don't like. However, they are minor in the scheme of things, and many things I didn't like initially were because of the "old-dog-new-trick" syndrome. Once I understood how they worked in the new game mechanics, I was happier with them.

The game is good..but nobody is complaining about the extreme lack of everything else...MP, Scenarios, Patches, tech support? Considering the price they charged for this???????

Extreme lack? Not at all. There is an abundance of things. And what other game includes a very user-friendly program to alter the fundamental rules of the game itself?

MP--Never use it, don't care about it, don't consider it mandatory. Especially in a turn-based game. I don't have the time for it and would rather just SP it. So no issue here.

Scenarios--I was surprised by this, but I understand Firaxis' reasoning. Why waste resources on something that the gaming community 1) makes themselves, 2) loves making themselves, and 3) make better than they do, since modders have more time/energy to focus on it than a programmer concerned with the core game itself. The core of the game is what matters most. The editor is pretty much a peripheral. A great one, yes, but still a peripheral. I'm glad they didn't delay the game to finish the editor. It works fine as it is, and will be even more awesome when they do release the finishing patch.

Patches--Huh? The game has been out for 2 days. How on earth could you expect them to have a patch already? Give them a break. They don't even know all of the little tech issues people are having fully, so give them a little time.

Price--Standard PC game prices now, unfortunately. I can't think of a new release that's come out in the past 2 years that hasn't been $45-$50. And this has been the best game I've played in a looooong time.

Cheers.

[Asher]

Boris:

As for price, I paid $49.99 Canadian for mine. Which is really cheap for a brand new computer game, I might add...

[Mike4879]

Originally posted by faded glory
The game is good..but nobody is complaining about the extreme lack of everything else...MP, Scenarios, Patches, tech support? Considering the price they charged for this???????

How is one willing to pay 50.00 bucks for an unfinished game

Im just waiting till they fix this ; thats all.

The problems are being highly exagerrated. The game is extremely addicting... Is it as good as everyone was expecting? No. Is it the best PC game released within the last 4 years? Yes.

Don't let people make up your mind. Its sad theres no scenarios yet, but the game is as addicting as it could ever be. It reminds me alot more of the original Civilization then it does Civ2, but if its so bad how come I can't stop playing it?

-Mike

[Col Bigspear]

When Nov 16th rolls around I will still but the game here in England, I think it's something like £25. I'll but it and then make my own decision. So far I haven't taken any notice of Negative reviews or Positive (that seriously), If it won't work on either of my machines (or runs with Problems, then i'll wait for the Patches). I do have other things to do, like College Work, so I won't be able to play as much as I want anyway.

[TechWins]

The lack of open-mindness on this forum is pathetic. By the way, I was directing those comments towards Boris and Asher.

If one is angry for a just reason then that is appropiate. Yet, to be mad for the sake of being mad is completely different.

Boris,

Since you don't use MP does that mean nobody else uses MP? Therefore if nobody is using MP then nobody should get mad that MP wasn't included, even though MP was advertised to be in the game.

And what other game includes a very user-friendly program to alter the fundamental rules of the game itself?

Well you are correct that not many games offer a rule-editor, but Firaxis did claim that the rule-editor would be marvelous (not a quote) yet the editor the fails to live up to those standards.

Scenarios - This is completely unacceptable that scenarios were not included. It should not be left up to the user of the product to create certain aspects of the product that should have been included. When you order a burger at McDonalds do you expect them to put lettuce, tomatoes, pickles, etc...? Yes. That is the reason why McDonalds doesn't say "Wel,l the customer could grow their own vegetables and use them to have fresher vegetables on the burger instead of using our vegetables. So we'll just not include any vegetable with the burger at all". I'm assuming that would be fine with you, considering that you are fine that Firaxis didn't include scenarios with the game.

Patches - Yes you are right that a patch shouldn't be expected to be out yet. Although, a patch should be expected to come out very soon. For the programmers must have known the difficiencies with the game before release time. Plus they had all that 'gone gold' time to work on them, so a patch should be expected within the next two weeks.

Price - I am completely fine with the price of the SE, but I think many people who bought the LE got a little ripped off. Fortunately enough for myself I bought the SE.

Asher,

Your complete arrogance and confidence in your posting lures me away from you. I will say one thing, though, my PC has/will work perfectly fine; I'm not sure if you read the game requirements, but my PC specs overseed them.

From the limited amount of playing I have done I find the game to be pretty good, but it still doesn't detract from the fact that people are inclined to have major complaints with the game. At this point * in time I have no reason to not say that Civ3 is a good game #, but I still can see why others differ with my opinion. Overall the game is worth buying as long as you expect a 'rushed' feeling with the game.

* - Tuesday I was very frustrated with the game because I couldn't get the game to function properly (display video). I guess I have that special knowledge, Asher, is referring to.

# - The feel of the game is amazing with the improved graphics. The newly added features are great, as well.

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by TechWins
Scenarios - This is completely unacceptable that scenarios were not included.

I agree, this is the only serious gripe I have with the game. Their excuse is they had no time, my reply is "too bad". Adding an editor so people can make their own scenarios is great, but to expect them to do so is ridiculous. Consider the people who will buy the game but not mess around with downloading scenarios or reading forums like this (the majority of buyers). They will never have scenarios.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Infogrames makes the call about the release date, not Firaxis. They can ask for more time to delay the release, but might not get it. At least SP is great (so I hear, anyway).

And if they did postpone the game, the *****ing and whining would never end!

[Asher]

Originally posted by TechWins
Your complete arrogance and confidence in your posting lures me away from you. I will say one thing, though, my PC has/will work perfectly fine; I'm not sure if you read the game requirements, but my PC specs overseed them.

I believe the requirements clearly stated a DirectX 8 capable video card. Which drivers are you using?
And I assure you, I'm not trying to lure you.

From the limited amount of playing I have done I find the game to be pretty good, but it still doesn't detract from the fact that people are inclined to have major complaints with the game. At this point * in time I have no reason to not say that Civ3 is a good game #, but I still can see why others differ with my opinion. Overall the game is worth buying as long as you expect a 'rushed' feeling with the game.

Seeing as I don't care for multiplayer civ, nor scenerio civ gaming, I don't see it as a rush product at all.
Everything I wanted to use in the civ game is in and appears to be working. Kudos to Firaxis for not making everyone wait because a smaller portion of the population enjoys doing multiplayer...that can come after.

The feel of the game is amazing with the improved graphics. The newly added features are great, as well.

I agree. The interface alone is just incredible compared to the other civ games.

[d_dudy]

well i've heard all the moans and i'm still gonna get it as soon as i can.

but, alot of these things will probobly be fixed by the time i get my Mac Civ3