I have Civ3, expect an indepth review shorty

[yin26]

1. Lack of MP (a standard and expected feature)
2. Lack of a complete editor (a standard and highly expected feature, especially in light of lacking #1)
3. Lack of ANY(!) scenarios
4. Lack of sufficient testing on some major graphics cards
5. The most God-awful maps ever released this millenium
6. Lack of a zoom good enough to help distinguish many of the things not easily distinguised, etc.

All of those things say: The game was rushed. The game is incomplete ... and Firaxis is too embarrased to deal with it in a public and respectable way.

Civ3 will have to patch its way past Civ2.

[MarkG]

1. Lack of knowing when to stop

yin, get a patch

[yin26]

Markos, you brought this on ... now you are in a corner. The only way to fix those issues is, as you say, to PATCH them.

Funny, actually, that you were the one telling me to look at 'the quality of the actual game' ... then when I do, you talk about a game that hasn't even been released yet.

Odd ...

[Delthayre]

Yins Points

First off, thanks for replying regarding the language Yin (I've always been fascinated with languages, so I thought I'd take an oppurtunity to ask someone with some experience)

Now, on to responses to your points (and pardon me if I get antagonistic)

1. Lack of MP doesn't bother me that much, I'm taking a positive spin on things (It'll give me time to work on my skills until they do release it). But I can understand, to a degree why it frustrates (and at times drives you beyond reason) that it was not present. I still believe they will include it eventually. But, as I have said in the past: If they do not release it as a free download (even if it is also part of an expansion) I will raise hell.

2. I'm justifiably optimistic about this one. They said they'd work with the mod community to improve it and have said they didn't want to hold up the game just to finish the editor (I think they underestimated how much it was valued). I am someone angry that they gave the impression on their website that it would be a complete editor, that my friends is false advertising.

3. This annoyed me as well. I wouldn't be so annoyed if they had released a complete editor (if they had, the lack of scenarios would cease to be a problem within a week). Firaxis would do well to release a free scenario pack (of good scenarios, not rushed crowd appeaser) within the immediate future. A monthly proffesional scenario on their website would be welcome too.

4. It ran find on mine (a 3-year old 8mg Intel i740 based one at that) so I'm not qualified to comment.

5. I've seen worse (of course those were maps I made). I always enjoyed playing on the world map in Civ 2 (I know, an odd thing to do, but I enjoyed it none the less) and was hoping to use them in Civ 3, but their horrible quality (you really expect me to believe that is Italy?) has turned me off. You would think that with larger maps, they would have been able to capture more detail...not less.

6. Didn't bother me, but I can see how some people would want better zooms (I'd like more of a distinction between workers and settlers visually).

I will agree that it was rushed (I've learned to be patient on releases, I wouldn't have minded a delay) but by my standards it is not imcomplete.

I mostly satisfied. The new interface is a bit awkward at times, but it works smoothly for me and the new features (resources, trade, ect.) seem mostly well implemented.

So, in short, I think Yin has several very valid points (that come through more clearly and reasonable when everyones calmed a bit) but I'm more willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Firaxis for now.

[MarBaS]

I can deal with no MP, Scenarios, the crappy maps, but the editor being so limited, there is no excuse for a crappy editor. The game can be changed the way we want it with it and it looks to be a big ball of crapolia.

[yin26]

Delthayre:

Believe it or not, I'm closer to your feelings than it might seem. My issue, however, is now we are in the "Hope for a patch" situation AGAIN. Of course, every game gets patched to one degree or another.

I'm just struck at the degree to which a Firaxis game will have to be patched and, indeed, whether or not we will have to pay AGAIN to get MP or a workable editor. That's my main gripe.

[monkspider]

This is a highly polished game, I am flabbergasted at how smoothly it runs Yin. Have you played it yet?
It's impeccable, believe me.
We'll get the editor soon, and the rest of your gripes are exceedingly trivial (sans the lack of MP of course). Civ 3 is probably the most wonderful creation of human civilization in history. Right up there with the Sistine Chapel and Beethoven's 5th Symphony. or at least I tend to think so.

[monkspider]

Plus the AI is even top-notch, isn't that all that really matters Yinny, my friend?

[MarkG]

Originally posted by yin26
Markos, you brought this on ... now you are in a corner. The only way to fix those issues is, as you say, to PATCH them.

you keep imagining things in my posts and/or interpreting them as you wish

so i will try to make it more clear to you: you claimed that firaxis "screwed up big".
in response to that, i said(right from the start) that the issues so far(and i mean the real issues, not the features that were cut and announced to be cut before the release) can be solved in the first patch. given that most games do require patches(wow!) i fail to see how firaxis "screwed up big"

[yin26]

I'm not taking issue with the SP part of the game, which sounds promising. I'm taking issue with 'the rest of the game' that even Markos admits will only come ... if at all or with a price tag ... in future releases.

You asked me to evaluate the game 'as is': It's not finished. And need I remind you (since you want to bring up the gaming industry) that SOME companies SOMETIMES just pretty much abandon things ... hmmmm ....

"But NOT Firaxis!"

LOL!

[yin26]

"They'd never rush the game! They know what they are doing! Shut up, Yin!"

Well?

And you expect me now to trust the patches ... which, by the way, are ALSO controlled by Infogrames, if I'm not mistaken.

Gonna be a long winter, folks.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by yin26
I'm taking issue with 'the rest of the game' that even Markos admits will only come ... if at all or with a price tag ... in future releases.

i'm not admiting anything. it's what firaxis states, before and after the release

You asked me to evaluate the game 'as is': It's not finished.

so once again you evaluated a game without playing a single minute with it....

say, how about writing one more review?

"They'd never rush the game! They know what they are doing! Shut up, Yin!"

you are confusing me with other people yin.....

[Delthayre]

Bloody Hell, Publishers Again!

*Sigh* by all indications it seems a great deal of the problems seem like they might be publisher side. Y'know what, I'm getting sick of this crap from publishers, they have no respect for the players sometimes. Most of us would rather have a good game late than a good, but feature lacking game early. I'm still happy with it, but again, I am frustrated at the publisher. Of course, maybe I'm wrong, it is to early for the dirty facts about the Infogames/Firaxis relationship to come out. If it was not for Firaxis's (by my standards) excellent, if limited, track record, I would be more open to the idea that they are more at fault.

Has there ever been a publisher that didn't rush games and stayed solvent? I think there is, but it can be hard to remember since I have to sift through the screw-ups.

In short (for clarifcation)
FIRAXIS: A good studio that admitedly made a few mistakes.
INFOGAMES: Just another publisher that thinks in dates and dollar signs.
Those are, perhaps, overly strong positions, but I have a long standing hatred of upper corporate america.

I guess I'm fortunate that I don't mind waiting for patches (one of the few respects I'm laid back in, otherwise I'm a frantic mess).

It is a good thing that the single player is quite playable and mostly stable (I had one crash, but that was because I had been running the system for quite some time and the RAM was mostly eaten up by other things by that point...restart and no problems).

Now, given what Yin said...I'm going to break out the flannel!

Optimism is good for the soul, but pessimism keeps you sane...as always, seek balance.

[Zanzin]

I think the real question is though -

Is it worse than how CTP 1 & 2 were released?

Maybe Firaxis thought they could get away with a dodgy release, given the history of the most recent predecessors in the series

[korn469]

first impressions

this is not my review just my thoughts after playing it for a while

*no texts bugs encountered so far
*i have been playing on deity, the AI is fairly smart, however its production bonuses and perhaps a hidden combat bonus (not sure i haven't read the guide) makes it a good opponent
*lack of rush buying in despotism virtually takes away the players ability to get a lead on the AI, and the AI has established strong tech and economy leads on me in the first three games i have played...however i can hold on own on the battlefield
*AI is good at expansion, however it is harder for the player to expand
*the graphics are good (compared to civ2 and smac) they do all they need to
*the sound has statics in it
*in my second game i was playing on the huge map of earth with 16 civs, i was amassing an army ready to take out the russians and zulus for control of south america, however the turns took about 2 minutes to process, so i saved that game (i was holding my own)...i have a p2 400, 128mb ram, 32mb ati radeon, 4x dvd drive
*the interface is tricky, it took me forever to figure out how to establish an embassy...and i still haven't been able to upgrade units
*the new tech advance system is kinds tricky, but it has prevented me from beelining for military techs, things have been switched around, this time i am the player sending tons of old units out
*wealth doesn't seem that good
*no penalty for switching production

all in all its ok so far, but i still need lots more time to come up with a better evaluation...more to come, so stay tuned