Mach vs Swordsmen, ect...

[player1]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
Hey guys how about an army of elite swordsmen (they pull their HP's together) vs a Mech Inf.?

It seems that army of three swordsmen can easily beat a Mech Inf.

2hp mech inf vs 15 hp swordsman elite army. If I am right the mech inf has around 14% chance to win which is one in 7.

Could anyone calculate

How real is that? You could have an army of elite swordsman roaming trough your teritorry for a long time.

You are right, armies of obsolete units are very powerfull. Maybe there should be some trigger which disbands obsolete armies (not units).
Something like this: When you go to Ind. Age, all armies with Ancient Units should be disbanded (Great Leaders don't like forever).
Mech. Inf. of 2hp has chance of 14%
Mech. Inf. of 3hp has chance of 35%

To LaRusso: Eh, da na ovim prostorima moze da se nadje original za 20 do 30 DM, i ja bi ga kupio (Civ je najbolji)

[player1]

Originally posted by Ray K
A 15% chance is still too high. As you pointed out, the probability Civ1 was 20%.

In fact in Civ1 it would be a 25% (if unit is veteran)

Anyway chance for Veteran M.I. ATTACKING an Army of Elite Sw. is
54%.

[yavoon]

hi, be careful everyone. simply going for realism gets u no fun points, atleast for me.

games like AOE, had to specifically make older units better to stop their obsolesence. its all nice that in reality mech infantry could waste a million swordsmen, but if u added up all the unrealistic things in this game, ur list would so long that u'd never get to play it.

and I assure you that keeping older units from becoming utterly obsolete IS a good gaemplay feature.

[player1]

Dont forget 3hp Mech. Inf. gets 3hp Sw with 94% chance.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave

How real is that? You could have an army of elite swordsman roaming trough your teritorry for a long time.

Precisely. That is why you need a hard rule that renders older units ineffictive against modern units.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

I can already imagine an army of 3 elite swordsman going around your territorry, pillaging all around, cutting off roads and running away, wile you are advanced in tech but you have no general and you are waiting for half of the millenium that a bleeding general spawns and you are utterly pissed off with the feature.

I can bet there will be a tread about this soon. Ok it might be fun but I think it is a bit too random feature that could seriously affect the game. Once you have such an army in your area you have to switch to military production, and you cannot really destroy them without a great leader. Even 500 years later with a big advantage in tech they will still be a serious threat if you did not produce that great leader you needed. However by that time you are odds on to be far behind.

I guess the calculation is a bit wrong somewhere otherwise a lot will depend on the fact when do you get your great leader and army which seems to be an random occurence.

[RobKid]

I've got a little Excel spreadsheet I'm posting that uses the COMBIN function to evaluate the binomial expansions for the combinations that Urban Ranger mentioned. You can edit the attacker/defender strength, defender bonus, and defender hps fields and see the chance for a single attacker winning at various skill levels. It does not do armies. Armies are somewhat more complicated than I want to derive the math for. Plus, I'm not clear on what would happen when an army is involved in combat while all of its member units have only 1 hp left. I saw something that indicated units are not lost out of an army without the whole army disappearing, which implies that a loss in this scenario loses the whole army, but that seems somewhat unfair. If you want to see the full explanation of my math, it's over on civfanatics.com's forums, at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...&threadid=7104

[brandon749]

Armor and Mobility

What about armor and mobility factors. I know that mobility effects combat, but I've only heard rumors about the armor feature. My copy of civ3 won't arrive until nov 1 so if someone could enlighten us....

[RobKid]

The only effect I'm aware of is that if a unit with a movement of 2+ is fighting a unit with a movement of 1, the unit will disengage (ala SMAC) if he gets down to 1 hp. If the other unit involved also has a movement of 2+, this is not allowed. By disengaging, I'm assuming the wounded unit moves back a square, but to what square I'm not sure. I'm also not sure what happens if the mobile unit is defending a city (I wouldn't necessarily want him leaving).

This did apply to defenders in SMAC right? Haven't played SMAC in a while, so I'm having trouble remembering.

[Blaupanzer]

Older, apparently obsolescent units are not to be taken as literally to be sword- or spear-armed in modern times. They are simply less capable units than their modern equivalents due to getting third-hand upgrades. It is silly of you, the players, to think that real spearmen and swordsmen will be left to take on armor. The number of times that a technological disparity of that degree has led to actual conflict must be less than 10 in the 100,000 conflicts of the last 500 years. More importantly, humans are too smart to keep fighting that way if that poorly armed. They go guerilla on you, so that the damage to you is inflicted by traps, mines, and ambushes. I'm willing to believe that a set of poorly-armed Mujahadeen are perfectly capable of routing a conscript mech ifantry unit. That is an historical result of the Afghani conflict with Russia. The "swordsmen" and "spearmen" in the came are under-armed units, but should not be seen as close order drill units armed only for hand-to-hand combat in the rifle and missile ages.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

You don't need leaders to get armies. You only need a city with Military Academy (moinor wonder) where you armies can be spawned.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
You don't need leaders to get armies. You only need a city with Military Academy (moinor wonder) where you armies can be spawned.

But you need a leader to get a military academy. AfaIk.