Firaxis, how about releasing the terrorist options as a DLable "extra"

[Aendolin]

..from your website? I see why you can't have it in the retail game, but why stop the people who really want it from having it? How can I wage a moral war against countries who commit unspeakable acts of horror if these acts aren't allowed? Alternately, what if I want to play a few games being the "bad guys"? Would it be possible to do this, even with an unofficial patch?

Thanks for listening.

[SITS]

Re: Firaxis, how about releasing the terrorist options as a DLable "extra"

Originally posted by Aendolin
..from your website? I see why you can't have it in the retail game, but why stop the people who really want it from having it? How can I wage a moral war against countries who commit unspeakable acts of horror if these acts aren't allowed? Alternately, what if I want to play a few games being the "bad guys"? Would it be possible to do this, even with an unofficial patch?

Thanks for listening.

How about writing letters saying sorry for your insensitivity to families of the 5000 victims?

[N_A]

I think the point here is for the players to get a chance to kick their asses. I also feel that terrorists should be a bunch of guys like the barbarians, except a tougher nuisiance.

[player1]

From a gameplay point, since anytype of SPY missions is now in a espionage screen, theese things need to be events (not somethnig to fight against), exept with maybe a counter espionage (CIA & Co.).

P.S.
Of course you can always balme some country and wage war against it.

[Faboba]

Yeah Firaxis, how about rewriting the AI script for EVERY CIV and the espionage front end as well as creating the actual scripts needed to put in terrorist functions to keep a small minority happy.

Or you could just release a bug fix in order to keep the download size smaller. BTW if you do think about doing what he suggests could you have whingeing bastard and non-whingeing bastard versions of the patch please? Cause I'd really appreciate that.

[Fidel]

Re: Re: Firaxis, how about releasing the terrorist options as a DLable "extra"

Originally posted by SITS


How about writing letters saying sorry for your insensitivity to families of the 5000 victims?

[Aendolin]

Re: Re: Firaxis, how about releasing the terrorist options as a DLable "extra"

Originally posted by SITS


How about writing letters saying sorry for your insensitivity to families of the 5000 victims?

If you think for a moment that I am insenstive about what happened there, I'm sorry to dissapoint you. I had a cousin a block away, as well as several other people I know who worked there, most of whom fortunately were not in the building.

I guess this once again boils down to the argument of those who want realism at all costs versus those who want to enact some sort of moral barrier against the most heinous acts being in the game, because that will somehow make them dissapear in the real world. I am obviously in the former camp; I want a chance to play a game where I can punish the people who commit these acts.

I'm sure the veterans of World War II don't feel too spiffy that we are now basing their hardships and sacrifices on trivial games.

As for changing the whole script, I doubt that will be extremely difficult. According to CGM, Firaxis already had a few terrorist options in it before the WTC was hit.

This will probably be my last post on this subject; I don't want to get into an argument.

[Panzer]

How about writing letters saying sorry for your insensitivity to families of the 5000 victims?

I think you are overreacting here. I feel these options should be included because terrorism (sadly) IS a part of this world. Besides, no one forces you to use them (I never used them in Civ2, except a few times when the target Civ was asking for it).

Besides, the only options were 'plant nuke' and 'poison watersupply'. Your outburst would have been justified if there was an option called 'crash airplane into civilian homes' but this is not the case.

(I was hoping for the option that you could blame another civ for your atrocity (like SMAC) and watch them kill each other off. "MAD in action, watch the Aztecs and French nuke each other to the next dimension after 'Aztec' terrorists planted a nuke in Lyons. Brought to you live by the German television network." )

Hey, I'm a Chieftain now! Yay! Can anyone tell me how I can put something under my title? I want mine to be Chieftain of the Blitz

[Wexu]

Re: Re: Firaxis, how about releasing the terrorist options as a DLable "extra"

Originally posted by SITS


How about writing letters saying sorry for your insensitivity to families of the 5000 victims?

Have you ever fired a nuclear missile in Civ? How 'bout writing letters to .. I don't even know how many..

This 11th of September is really getting out of hands. If something terrible happens in US then it's a Holy thing. Everyone must grieve! Everyone must hold silent moments and put flag to half pole. Whole world must be terrified. BUT if something even more horrible happens .. let's say in Africa, you don't give a **** about it! You're so naive.

Of course what happened at 11th was a very sad thing, but wake up! We must now turn our noses to the future and try to find peaceful ways to settle disagreements between nations. Killing is not answer to anything.

Sorry if I made someone sad or angry..

Now everyone back to topic!

[Aendolin]

Ok, one more post...I just have a few more things to say.

Let me start off by saying I like being the good guys in games. In Civ II, I play the enlightened pacifist. In Might and Magic 7, I always choose the light path. In Age of Kings I sometimes hold back my army to let my priests convert the enemy peasants, so they won't be killed when I attack their army. Do I realize I am in a game? Of course I do. But still, it's nice to be the good guys.

But, sometimes, in 1 out of every 100 games, I enjoy being the bad guy. I choose the dark side in Jedi Knight. I am a nuclear psychopath in Civ II. Again, do I realize its a game? Yes. Would I ever even think of committing these acts in real life? Absolutely not. Would I feel horrible if these events did happen in real life? A qualified yes.

That is why I would appreciate the terrorist options. To play out the conflict of good and evil within me.

How can there be absolute goodness without absolute evil? If we simply take out the most horrific elements of mankind, we are taking out a part of who we are, as horrifying as it may be. The wonderful kindness in the world is there to couteract the evil within it.

This is what is so wonderful about Civilization. It lets you play out the drama that is humanity. But how can we be a moral, enlightened state if there is no despicable evil state to counter it? As I said before, I enjoy being the upholder of
"Goodness". I need a counterweight to oppose me.

I don't think I'm alone in my opinions. I'm sure many people feel the way I do. A lot of them are too nervous to say anything, however, as they fear, rightly so, that they will be attacked by peole calling them "insenstive".

As I mentioned earlier, Firaxis even had a few terrorists acts in the game before the tragedy happened. Ignoring them won't make them go away, however. In fact, we will be doing what the terrorists' want us to do (sorry for using this overused phrase): living our lives differently then how we would have before the attack.

Ok, I'll shut up now....

[Rince]

I totally agree with you, Wexu. All the drama and world wide grief is pure affectation.

Greetings,

Rince

[Rege]

I agree with you, Aendolin.

All weapons in CIV III - Panzer tanks, Bomber planes, nukes, etc. Killed hordes of people- should we take that back too?

I think that a game could have an option - Just like those gory games with an option that those who really are affected can just turn off terrorists...

[Dimension]

Sure, plenty of people like Rince and Wexu wouldn't care if 10,000,000 Americans were killed, but I dare say that the "drama and worldwide grief" is not artificial. Many people have their own petty reasons to resent America, but most can pull their heads out of their asses long enough to sympathize for something that transcends national identity.

Try to have a little respect for people's feelings. When was the last time 6,000 people were killed in your country for a cause they hadn't even heard of?

My grandparents both worked in Hawaii and saw the bodies of people they knew flying through the air. Sure, it was 60 years ago, and only 1,200 people died on the U.S.S. Arizona, but I'm not going to go making jokes about it when they're around.

Most people are also smart enough not to take the 150,000 deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki lightly or say, "They had it coming." It shouldn't require an explanation of the reasons Japan sided with Germany, or why Japan as a whole had very little control of their military.

But then some people are just stupid, and they think there is some kind of nobility to being honest enough to admit they don't care. I can guarantee that these people would keep their mouths shut if they were ever in New York, though. Stop fooling yourself. You're not superior to all the "fake" mourners. You're just cocky and out of touch with reality.

And then there are the idiots like SITS at the other end of the spectrum. This guy is just as bad as Rince and Wexu. He also shows his superiority complex with his holier-than-thou post. These people can all be grouped together with the people who try to ruin every message board by totally ignoring the intent of every thread and just trying their hardest to start arguments.

"How about writing letters saying you're sorry..." How about trying a little too hard to pretend you care? Give me a break. That's why it's called a game. Committing a terrorist act in a game doesn't mean you condone them any more than shooting someone in Quake means you're a murderer. Adding another facet to the game shouldn't be looked at the same as overt bad taste. Allowing spies to poison the water supply in a game isn't going to disrespect the memory of perished New Yorkers. Now KZ Manager, the game where you run a concentration camp and get money by selling gold fillings... that had overt bad taste, but accusing Aendolin for wanting to put a feature back in Civ3 is a true sign of ignorance.

[Aendolin]

Did you ever play the WW2 pacific theatre scenario, Dimension? The scenario starts with many Japanese planes surrounding Pearl Harbor and bombing everything in it in one turn. I wonder what your grandfather would say if he saw all the horror and trauma he went through turned into one bland turn, with all the men who died being merely statistics....

It's kind of scary when you think about it, how we treat things that happen long enough in the past.

Those who forget history...

[drake]

They shouldnt have pulled anything from the game, whether it be for terrorism or espionage. Games are games. They are not realistic. They are not designed to simulate history even. They are for entertainment purposes.