The "Don't exploit the AI using Cheap Tactics" challenge

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

Would that be *my* Wombat manouever? If so, WOW That was just a Succession Game joke if not, oops

Resume: I'll exchange this size 20 city of mine for thaat size 3 city of yours. oh yeah, and mine is surrounded by troops, so I can take it back straight away You agree? Good good

What exactly is your manouever Wombat? How is it considered cheap?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

heres the man himself, Immortal Wombat.

I gave credit where credits due.

First Prince Post

[Immortal Wombat]

The CtP2 "Wombat manouever" is thus:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Summary: I'll exchange this size 20 city of mine for thaat size 3 city of yours. oh yeah, and mine is surrounded by troops, so I can take it back straight away You agree? Good good

I suppose it is cheap given that the AI only sees the the 17 pop increase, and not the potential dangers of owning the city, until it actually owns the city, by which time it is too late for anything other than rush-buying a defender.

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
heres the man himself, Immortal Wombat.

I gave credit where credits due.

*bows*

I'm amazed anyone was actually reading the SG threads

[Lorizael]

Ah it's a Civ III strategy... ok.

But we don't know what factors the computer ummm.... factors when deciding what cities to trade. Let's not assume the worst before we get the game.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I'm amazed anyone was actually reading the SG threads

Those were the funniest in the forum. We have to start something like that for Civ3 (except I got a Mac, so i wont be joing you )

[Immortal Wombat]

Though I can only hope the AI is better than any other TBS game so far, if it is at all like other Civ games, then fear and desire motivations are called into play. Assuming you are the more powerful civ, then the other civ will be acting in fear, and a desire for peace, they will accept most rational demands. If you have never before hinted at war, then an offer to exchange cities should be greeted favorably by most personality types, and unless Firaxis has been lurking the CtP2 forums, they will not be wasting AI time scanning around a peaceful civ's cities for units. Chances are the AI won't be able to see through the "fog of war" anyway. Maybe on harder levels the AI will move their units close to the city in case of a counter-attack, but chances are, that on most levels (below Emperor at least) the tactic will work for quite a few situations, and given some really cunning positioning of troops, will be highly effective in getting a bridgehead on an "enemy" continent.

[Immortal Wombat]

2am!! Last post tonight...

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


Those were the funniest in the forum. We have to start something like that for Civ3 (except I got a Mac, so i wont be joing you )

For a while they were the only thing in the forum Glad you liked 'em.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Though I can only hope the AI is better than any other TBS game so far, if it is at all like other Civ games, then fear and desire motivations are called into play. Assuming you are the more powerful civ, then the other civ will be acting in fear, and a desire for peace, they will accept most rational demands. If you have never before hinted at war, then an offer to exchange cities should be greeted favorably by most personality types, and unless Firaxis has been lurking the CtP2 forums, they will not be wasting AI time scanning around a peaceful civ's cities for units. Chances are the AI won't be able to see through the "fog of war" anyway. Maybe on harder levels the AI will move their units close to the city in case of a counter-attack, but chances are, that on most levels (below Emperor at least) the tactic will work for quite a few situations, and given some really cunning positioning of troops, will be highly effective in getting a bridgehead on an "enemy" continent.

No one can see through the FoW but if the city is has enemy units close enough to be seen, they are probably inside the AI borders. In that case I bet the AI will be less likely to accept the deal.

Obviously a human would be suspicious if someone offered them a deal like that. If we could program paranoia and suspicion into AI... man o man that would be a great game. Until then, realize the problems inherent in programming an AI this complicated, and don't abuse it.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

One of the many problems of the AI is that it doesn't think like a human in the sense that it doesn't understand long-term strategy or consequences. So you exploit this with "strategies" which I consider almost like cheating, like the Wombat strategy, in order to defeat the higher difficulty levels.

Im sure I could get a few human players to fall for that in MP.

[Wittlich]

It's Only Human Nature After All...

I think we all understand what you're saying Pembleton, but the fact remains that the AI follows a set program. And yes, in time, Human Players WILL exploit it.

This is why we need, and I, for one, can't wait for, Civ3 MP. You need the additional human element in the game that DOES NOT follow a set program in playing the game.

Your ideas have merit Pembleton, but it is NOT a perfect world - When human players realize and understand how the AI plays, the AI will be exploited - even if the human player makes a pact to himself/herself not to do certain things, when that same player realizes he/she might loose the game...the gloves come off!

[Lawrence of Arabia]

What? You start with your gloves on? Mine come off when i touch the keyboard!

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Dominating 16 civs isnt enough for me. i gotta be able to dominate sid meiers progarmming skillz.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Dominating 16 civs isnt enough for me. i gotta be able to dominate sid meiers progarmming skillz.

Umm, you haven't been dominating Sid's programming skillz since Civ I!

And I think 16 civs will be rough. It'll be a wonderful new challenge

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Umm, you haven't been dominating Sid's programming skillz since Civ I!

shhhh