what's the point of chariots

[Taylost]

I believe you, but "MULE DRIVEN CHARIOTS TO THE EAST COMING UP ANY TIME NOW.... Well soon!... Okay, after tea"

I admit, the idea of mules pulling a chariot does seem kind of silly, but...

- The Assrians (spelling?) did use them to good effect and

- This may be one of those "game play balance over historical accuracy" things so that a player starting in an area without horses has a fast attack unit.

[Deathray]

Originally posted by Faboba
Or you could just do what I'm planning..... swap horesback riding and the wheel in the tech tree and cut the chariot out the game.

As far as I'm concerned the Chariot is an excellent choice for a UU as, like the elephant par example, it is something which is only used in one part of the world ( europe / the middle east ) AKAIK it was never used in Asia, Africa or either of the Americas ( no horses so....... )

Much more sensible is merely to use horsemen ( horses were used by pretty much all cultures at one time or another ) and just keep the Chariot as a UU for the Egyptians.

Besides..... WAR Chariot. What other type of Chariot you gonna have? PEACE AND LOVE Chariot? HOPE, FAITH AND Chariot?

And for the advance swapping, I quite agree with albiedamned, it seems somewhat ridiculous the idea that you can only properly domesticate horses enough to sit on them, after you have trained them well enough to work in tandem and bull a large wood platform. Horses don't have wheels. Ergo it takes less ingenuity to jump on a horse and ride around than it does to strap a giant soap box racer on the back of a pair of them and procliam it a WAR Chariot.

Maybe a war chariot has spikes on the wheels or something? I dunno.

Anyway, using horses for battle historically happened after chariots. You can ride a horse before you can build a chariot, but you cannot fight on that horse before you can fight on the chariot. It is easy enough to attach the chariot to the horses, and then you have a stable platform to shoot your arrows from. If you try to just jump on a horse, however, try to fight and you will fall off. Once stirrups were invented, it became possible to fight on horseback. At this point one man on a horse was almost as powerful as a chariot, which required two men, two horses and a lot of wood at least. Thus it was more efficient to make large units of cavalry and the chariot was made obsolete.

[Faboba]

But the play balance is just..... NOT.

It's a totally unecessary unit.

* It only was used by selecte civilizations ( a somewhat limit number )
* The use of the without horses was purely tradeing and commerce as oxen are slow and useless in battle.
* The idea of having them BEFORE Horsemen is demeted. HORSEDRAWN equpiment BEFORE the domestication of horses makes no sense.
* The movement advantage in reality was garnered by horses. And before you give me the nonsense of 'some people won't have horses' well in reality some people didn't have horses. The people tended to live near forests, cold climates, desserts or mountains where the movement costs of such terrains in the game make horses realisticly useless anyway.
* Just.... CAUSE!

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by Faboba
But the play balance is just..... NOT.

It's a totally unecessary unit.

* It only was used by selecte civilizations ( a somewhat limit number )
* The use of the without horses was purely tradeing and commerce as oxen are slow and useless in battle.
* The idea of having them BEFORE Horsemen is demeted. HORSEDRAWN equpiment BEFORE the domestication of horses makes no sense.
* The movement advantage in reality was garnered by horses. And before you give me the nonsense of 'some people won't have horses' well in reality some people didn't have horses. The people tended to live near forests, cold climates, desserts or mountains where the movement costs of such terrains in the game make horses realisticly useless anyway.
* Just.... CAUSE!

For the third time, fighting from horses was developed after fighting from a chariot, this is why the wheel comes before horseback riding. Have you ever ridden a horse bare-back? and had to fight with anything less than a re-curve bow or rifle of some kind?

It was much easier to fight from a chariot than it was to fight from a horse without a saddle and stirrup, that's a historical and modern day fact. A little study of history would help alleviate some of the obvious mis-conceptions stated and show you how things reall are and were and why they make perfect sense from a historical point of view.

BTW, most of the civilizations of the Med area used the chariot in some sense or another. Sure some civilizations didn't have them but some civilizations also didn't have the phalanax or the battleship or mechanized infantry yet most all Civ's had access to these units in the game, why should the chariot be any different just because you *think* it doesn't belong?

[Wexu]

Ozymandous,

Good post!

[Provost Harrison]

As has been said, warfare works on a different basis. If a chariot is getting beaten to death when attacked, it can just retreat and let the next fella go in to the attack, as someone or other has already stated in this thread...

[Your.Master]

Originally posted by Faboba
Besides..... WAR Chariot. What other type of Chariot you gonna have? PEACE AND LOVE Chariot? HOPE, FAITH AND Chariot?

Passenger chariot. Yes, they existed (not sure about the name, but they did).

[dennis580]

Well since you get Chariots BEFORE Horsemen in Civ III I think that would be a pretty good reason to use them.

[The Rook]

Hmmm. I don't know, but I would speculate that before someone figured out how to ride a horse, he would first figured out how to have one pull a sled or wagon. There is more practical reasons to have a wagon than a single rider on a horse. From wagons came chariots, and from chariots came war chariots. So from this train of thought, I could agree that the wheel was invented before horseback riding became practical.

[Felch]

Yeah, keep in mind the advance is Horseback Riding, not Horse Domestication. Besides, I know that at least on my computer, chariots won't require horses, just for gameplay purposes. So I don't mind their inclusion.

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Ozymandous
For the third time, fighting from horses was developed after fighting from a chariot, this is why the wheel comes before horseback riding. Have you ever ridden a horse bare-back? and had to fight with anything less than a re-curve bow or rifle of some kind? It was much easier to fight from a chariot than it was to fight from a horse without a saddle and stirrup, that's a historical and modern day fact.

Well, the plains Amerinds, when they finally got horses, became masters of horseback warfare without using saddle or stirrups. Nor did they have wagons to pull (they did have sledges though).

But Horseback Riding and The Wheel/The Chariot should not be on the same tech path in either order. Neither is a prereq for the other.

The tech tree could run like this:

Pottery -> The Wheel -> The Plough, Engineering
Warrior Code -> Horseback Riding -> Chivalry

Two separate paths, but still both Chariots and Horsemen could have horses as input in the game.