Governments

[Grumbold]

I'm with Templar (who largely matches WesW's MedMod governments) except for the inclusion of "future" versions. I don't think we'll be ready for anything truly different by 2040 or whenever the game ends. If anything we are currently in danger of backsliding to more authoritarian governments.

Each age needs a balance of 3 or more differing styles of government that offset each other well but are all modestly superior to forms found in earlier ages. Partly to reward the scientific achievement of getting there and partly to reflect improving methods of communication and slowly rising levels of wealth and education of even the poorest members of societies whose government form has remained static for centuries.

[JanB]

Governments

Personally, I would like a government where the senate didn't interfere in my decisions and where I could have more cities under my control than has been allowed in previous games. Guess I'm a control freak! If Civ III lets you win by conquering a percentage of the the total number of cities or civilizations, that would be an acceptable alternative. What I hated was having dozens of middling cities to annihilate (had to look that one up in the dictionary ) because capturing them would give me unhappiness points. I had enough of those anyway!

Anyway, as you say, too late for changes now. Bye the way, I have ordered the LE from US but will buy the standard addition in the UK as a Christmas present for my daughter and will try - yes I will - to resist installing that on to my computer until my own LE wings its way accross the Atlantic! Do you think that I will succeed? Also, I hope Amazon US wraps it well as I don't want dents in my tin!! Finally, you lucky folks who get the game quickly, please don't forget to tell us unfortunates how good it is!

Jan

[Lorizael]

I like the idea of having 3 or so governments per age, so that not eveyrone goes to democracy when they get it and then Fundamentalism when they have all the sciences. Though they may not be the best governments out there, there are definetely still authoritarian governments in existence. They do have certain advantages such as no senate to worry about, and martial law.

I also think that there should be two types of Communism. There should be True Communism like what Marx wanted but has not yet been done, and there should be what was seen in the Soviet Union and still other countries (China and Cuba) today.

Direct Democracy is not a future government. There are a few (small) countries today that use a Direct Democracy. The problem with a Direct Democracy is the logistics. How would you work that sort of government in Civ, where all decisions are made by the people? You would need lots of luxuries in that type of government...

[Admiral PJ]

It would be nice to ban some government types from some Nations/civs - like the americans could be banned from communist governments with their well known hatred of this gov.
This might unbalance things a bit but could make it a lot more fun and strategic.
These civs could disaprove and declare war more on otheres that hold their nemesis (hated) government type.

What about a Green party government with no pollution and extra happiness, but bad industrial production and science. It could have better culture for a cultural game win.

There shuld be a proper right wing government, fundamentalism was too religious based though.
I liked fundamentalists ability to make spies cause less controversy and scandals when used.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Admiral PJ
It would be nice to ban some government types from some Nations/civs - like the americans could be banned from communist governments with their well known hatred of this gov.
This might unbalance things a bit but could make it a lot more fun and strategic.

No way. Lots of Americans are communists. During the Great Depression, there were a lot of people in America who questioned the capitalist system. If it weren't for the success of the New Deal, etc., we might have had our own communist revolution... who knows. Anyway, my point is that you shouldn't prevent a civ from doing it just because the Civ hasn't done it yet in the "real world."

These civs could disaprove and declare war more on otheres that hold their nemesis (hated) government type.

Maybe... but policy is more likely to dictate hate than government. There are a great many authoritarian governments that the democracies of the world aren't concerned about, because they aren't agressive or belligerent.

What about a Green party government with no pollution and extra happiness, but bad industrial production and science. It could have better culture for a cultural game win.

Sounds like a democracy, but with high luxury rates at the expense of science, and no factories plus many mass transits plus recycling plants. What's the difference?

Lorizael: Direct Democracy is not a government that could work in Civ2 (IMO, it could never work in real life, but that's something for the OT) because there would be no ruler. The government would be constantly changing its course and would be very chaotic... Since there would be no authoritative leader, you couldn't very well play as a country with direct democracy in Civ.

[Lorizael]

Yes, I agree with you that I don't think a direct democracy would be feasible in a Civ type game as we know it. And I also agree that there shouldn't be a Right Wing Gov, or Green Party Gov. That just all depends on how you run your government.

We are looking for government types, not party types or economic systems. That's all up to the player.

[Jer8m8]

I have no idea what it would do, but you could add
Oligarchy

[Mars]

You could add direct democarcy - any more than a one size one city and the production goes way down, science goes way down, milatary goes way down, because everyone is spending all their time figuring out what to do and come together

BTW - You wouldn't have a Soviet Union Communism and True Communism cause everyone would obvisily chose a True Communist Country

[Mars]

Originally posted by Grumbold
I'm with Templar (who largely matches WesW's MedMod governments) except for the inclusion of "future" versions. I don't think we'll be ready for anything truly different by 2040 or whenever the game ends. If anything we are currently in danger of backsliding to more authoritarian governments.

Each age needs a balance of 3 or more differing styles of government that offset each other well but are all modestly superior to forms found in earlier ages. Partly to reward the scientific achievement of getting there and partly to reflect improving methods of communication and slowly rising levels of wealth and education of even the poorest members of societies whose government form has remained static for centuries.

Read my earlier post i have three and now four, we can include the enviromentalist which i forgot til admiral PJ brought it up

Enviromentalism - High Happiness (yes i mean high happiness not low unhappiness), Low Pollution, Low Corruption, Low Production, Low Military, talented spys and diplomats

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Mars
You could add direct democarcy - any more than a one size one city and the production goes way down, science goes way down, milatary goes way down, because everyone is spending all their time figuring out what to do and come together

BTW - You wouldn't have a Soviet Union Communism and True Communism cause everyone would obvisily chose a True Communist Country

I think a Soviet Union type Communism might be Fascism. Fascism would be the modern day Despotism, Monarchy, etc...

It would have the advantage of Martial Law and the ability to Force Labor your people like hell.

[Lorizael]

Once again I don't think that Environmentalism is a government type. I think that is simply how you run your government. You could be an environmentalist under a despotism. Build solar plants and get Ecology!

[Mars]

Originally posted by Lorizael


I think a Soviet Union type Communism might be Fascism. Fascism would be the modern day Despotism, Monarchy, etc...

It would have the advantage of Martial Law and the ability to Force Labor your people like hell.

Why not just call it facism then?

[Mars]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Once again I don't think that Environmentalism is a government type. I think that is simply how you run your government. You could be an environmentalist under a despotism. Build solar plants and get Ecology!

Enviromentalism could be a government. A bunch of cheery tree huggers so around preaching preservation of nature and the like. Thereby acting as a form of pure communism were every contributed in making sure that the ecological state stayed the same. Result lower everything expect for happiness. So there its different than depotism., and don't call it a communist gov cause its different than that every contributes for the good of nature not the good of the society

[Lorizael]

It couldn't happen. People aren't that nice. And I still say, you could have a king teaching people to hug trees as much as a president could.

And yes, I would just called th USSR Communism Fascism

[Mars]

Originally posted by Lorizael
It couldn't happen. People aren't that nice. And I still say, you could have a king teaching people to hug trees as much as a president could.

And yes, I would just called th USSR Communism Fascism

It may be similar in concept but its different in advanages and what not.
And Neither could the true communism but hey its just a game