what will make civ 3 better than ctp

[Grumbold]

CtP1/2 have never crashed on me. I guess that just highlights the problems they have these days trying to develop software for "the PC" which has thousands and thousands of possible hardware and software configurations.

Its a piece of software which the majority of keen Civvers feel was inferior to Civ 2/SMAC. I'm not going to challenge that. However it did manage to show some positive ways that the Civ experience could be improved or adapted:

- expanding city radius
- SLIC code for making really different mods
- PW rather than workers (love it or hate it)
- proper army formations with roles for infantry, cavalry and missiles
- Interesting special forces (love them or hate them)
- Configurable build queue lists
- Terrain restrictions e.g. Armor in roadless mountains

Not enough to save it from its faults, but worthwhile for all that.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by campmajor!
Well, I downloaded the Cradle Pack 1.00, the update to that and the mod swapper. Took me some time, but I took the challenge. Then started a game at Impossible etc.

The first turn I got a warning that Global Warming was feared by my scientists.....

I agree that this makes the game a lot more difficult, but come on this is totally unrealistic!

Unfortunately, the message is something that could not be worked around in the Mod, due to altering the file to allow new civs to pop up during the course of the game. The pollution will act normally though. Leaving the Maxplayers setting to 0 will remove the message, but makes the game a LITTLE easier.

And before you write off the experience, realize that this is the only message during the course of the game that might mislead. It was not spelled out in the Readme, but was mentioned on the support thread. And it does show that Modders cannot overcome every limitation, but at the same time realize that there will be limitations in the civ3 modding process that will not be able to be overcome either.

A small price to pay for a greater challenge...and since you have gone to the trouble to download, continue to play. Still 2 weeks to go anyhow...

[KrazyHorse]

what will make civ 3 better than ctp

It's not CTP.

[Dugrik]

Civ3's advantages over CTP (I can't make judgements about CTP2)

The AI. Granted, after a lot of tweaking our talented scenario scripters have much improved the AI's play versus out-of-the-box, but unfortunately, it still can't handle play in the Genetic and Diamond Ages. And hopefully the Civ3 AI will restrain itself from pointless acts-of-war. (i.e. AI longboat sails into bay next to my destroyer and proceeds to pillage fishery, starting war.)

The Worker. Public Works are spiffy, but they allow tactical cheats such as building a railroad right up to an enemy city's gates. I'd prefer a system where the development of terrain improvements can be harrassed.

Trade System. In CTP, the object of trade was to create monopoly centers. An interesting concept, but it doesn't really model fundamental purpose of trade -- the exchange of goods and luxuries to improve your empire. I did like Piracy though and will miss it in Civ3. BTW, in CTP you did build caravans, but you didn't move them to establish trade routes.

Culture. A brand new concept for Civing -- its sounds intriquing and I hope it works.

Minor Wonders. Dang good idea.

Unique Units. Could be good, could be bad. We'll see.



CTP's advantages over Civ3

Multi-player. I don't care how smart they make the AI, it won't be as smart as a human opponent or two or six. MP is a must. And I hope part of the promised MP solution includes PBEM, because I don't have time to play in six-hour blocks of time.

Easier stacking. Stacking is vital to building good armies, especially stacking a mix of front-line and ranged units. The ranged units could take out a good deal of the enemy before the front-lines even engaged. I haven't heard if any Civ3 units even have a ranged attack.

Sea-colonies and Space Colonies. Sorry, but I like them and will miss them in Civ3.

Orbital unit movement. Why spend 12 turns moving a unit around the world via land and sea when you can launch it into space, orbit it around and land it in two turns. Maybe its unrealistic, but it does speed up the endgame.

More special units Civ3 will have the diplomat and the spy. CTP had diplomats, spies who could plant nukes, evangelical priests who could soothsay and convert cities for gold income, slavers who could steal population, lawyers who could stop production, corporate branches who could steal production, bio-terrorists, and more, giving the player many more tools than just armies to advance ones goals.


These are some things that come to mind atm. I'll be buying Civ3, but I'll continue to play CTP in pbem games.

[cyril25376]

Please explain: "pbem games"

[sekong]

Play By EMail=PBEM...
I hope the coming CIV3 can do that, or at least hot seat.. Oh well..

[Dida]

Originally posted by Dugrik
[b]
Easier stacking. Stacking is vital to building good armies, especially stacking a mix of front-line and ranged units. The ranged units could take out a good deal of the enemy before the front-lines even engaged. I haven't heard if any Civ3 units even have a ranged attack.

Sea-colonies and Space Colonies. Sorry, but I like them and will miss them in Civ3.

Orbital unit movement. Why spend 12 turns moving a unit around the world via land and sea when you can launch it into space, orbit it around and land it in two turns. Maybe its unrealistic, but it does speed up the endgame.

More special units Civ3 will have the diplomat and the spy. CTP had diplomats, spies who could plant nukes, evangelical priests who could soothsay and convert cities for gold income, slavers who could steal population, lawyers who could stop production, corporate branches who could steal production, bio-terrorists, and more, giving the player many more tools than just armies to advance ones goals.


These are some things that come to mind atm. I'll be buying Civ3, but I'll continue to play CTP in pbem games.

I agree with most of this, especially about stacking.
But I hate the unconventional units. Imagine the AIs sending tons of lawyers and corporate branches into your nation, and just start sueing, and stealing yur product, it doesn't hurt me much in the end game, but it's very very annoying.

[Grumbold]

The special units are one of those features you either love or hate. With the right AI mods they are brilliant. I loved the covert war manoeuvers while smiling peacefully at my neighbours

Admittedly they needed more work, especially to allow armies to move around unobstructed by individuals.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Dugrik
CTP's advantages over Civ3

Sea-colonies and Space Colonies. Sorry, but I like them and will miss them in Civ3.

I'd miss these if the AI knew how to use them at all.

Orbital unit movement. Why spend 12 turns moving a unit around the world via land and sea when you can launch it into space, orbit it around and land it in two turns. Maybe its unrealistic, but it does speed up the endgame.

No, this made perfect sense! Another cool thing (it was modded in though) was the spy satelite unit that could cruise around in orbit (safe until someone develops space fighters) keeping track of enemy units.

More special units Civ3 will have the diplomat and the spy. CTP had diplomats, spies who could plant nukes, evangelical priests who could soothsay and convert cities for gold income, slavers who could steal population, lawyers who could stop production, corporate branches who could steal production, bio-terrorists, and more, giving the player many more tools than just armies to advance ones goals.

I liked the idea of non-conventional warfare, but this was poorly implememented. I would much prefer an "abstract" screen driven thing instead of units (think Space Empires 4). Hopefully, the espionage screen in Civ3 will have some cool options for non-convential warfare. >>fingers crossed<<

Wow, chieftan in a day - I really have no life ...