Collaborative Scenario-Making Idea

[Case]

Originally posted by Hoek
What do you think of trying to integrate mutliplayer capabilities into the design?

I think that thats a question for Firaxis, not lowly scenario designers


As for the scenarios topic: I vote for a big WW 2 scenario. WW 2 scenarios are popular and fairly easy to make (and I should know - I've made two!)

[Hoek]

Why should it be a question for firaxis? We already know there's going to be multiplayer and we already know there's going to be scenarios...isn't it a safe assumption to say that it is possible to play scenarios online?

I guess I meant moreso should we design scenarios with multiplayer as the basis for balancing, or should we design them based on the AI?

[Harlan]

I agree that multiplayer ain't gonna happen any time soon, so deal with it if/when it happens. And anyways, that should depend on the individual project - some scenarios work well as multiplayer, some not at all.

Case,
Problem with a big ol' WW2 scenario is that there doesn't seem to be any events capability in the shipped game. I hope to God they fix that in the first patch or two, but who can tell when that will be ready. Until then, I don't see how a theater-wide or world-wide WW2 scenario is possible. Whereas I think an Eastern Front scenario is much more doable, cos you can just point the Russians and Germans at each other and have them go at it in one giant non-stop battle, without a lot of events (assuming the AI is smart).

Such a project could be a kind of training wheels exercise to ready people to do a WW2 scenario on a wider scope, once the game can handle it.

[Hoek]

Harlan: where did you hear that there is no events capability? That would be a disaster. Do you have a link to that information or do you have a private source of info?

[Harlan]

A few days ago, Dan of Firaxis posted somewhere on these forums something to the effect of: "I don't know where the rumor got started that the game was shipping with a scripting or macro language". Perhaps someone can find the exact quote. I believe it was made a news item.

I'm assuming that by saying "shipping with" he's implying that will come later. Probably like multiplayer, they're being rushed to put the game out before its really ready, and so decided to postpone work on things that didn't absolutely need to be done when the game first shipped.

Really sucks for us scenario making types, hunh? Not to mention, how good can the scenarios coming with the game be if there's no events functionality?

[Hoek]

That does stink. I think these game companies too often rush products just to get them out there without trying to put a polished product out. I guess that's business though. There's no reason we can't get some preliminary work done before the scripting language comes out.

I was unaware that it wasn't coming with multiplayer capabilities. That really stinks! I'm sure Civ 3 will be good, but the fact is that there is a high demand for scenario-making tools in the civ community and there is also high demand for multiplay options. Firaxis would be stupid not to be speedy about developing an upgrade.

[Case]

Originally posted by Harlan
Case,
Problem with a big ol' WW2 scenario is that there doesn't seem to be any events capability in the shipped game. I hope to God they fix that in the first patch or two, but who can tell when that will be ready. Until then, I don't see how a theater-wide or world-wide WW2 scenario is possible.

I guess Firaxis wants to extort more money by releasing scenario making tools later on.

Originally posted by Harlan
Whereas I think an Eastern Front scenario is much more doable, cos you can just point the Russians and Germans at each other and have them go at it in one giant non-stop battle, without a lot of events (assuming the AI is smart).

Such a project could be a kind of training wheels exercise to ready people to do a WW2 scenario on a wider scope, once the game can handle it.

Good idea.

Another thing this 'collective' could do is to develop lots of units and maps to provide a database for scenario creation in the future.

[dainbramaged13]

I'll be a playtester

[Hoek]

I guess we could provide some early graphics, but that isn't really right. My guess is that people will be pretty protective of their work, especially since Civ 3 graphics will be that much more complicated than Civ 2 graphics. If I get a website, one thing I'm hoping to do is to act as a sort of magnet for scenario creators. Collaboration is a great thing, and if we can bounce ideas off of one another, it will be that much better.

I'm a bit drunk right now, so it's possible i'm just spitting jibberish, but I probably stick to what I said in the morning.

[Case]

Originally posted by Hoek
My guess is that people will be pretty protective of their work, especially since Civ 3 graphics will be that much more complicated than Civ 2 graphics.

All the more reason to set up a 'collective' apporach.

[Hoek]

haha...in the readme text, it'll be like movie credits...produced by Civ 3 Scenario-Makers Guild, directed by Hoek, sprites by ...etc.

lol

No, but seriously, i know that when allard and I ran a+a's civilization site, we really did act as a big resource for other scenario-makers, but that really isn't the idea here. The idea here is to collaborate within our group, so that we can still put some kind of claim to intellectual property. The idea is to get a group of people who are dedicated to what they are doing, and enjoy making these scenarios. I don't think people are going to part with their intellectual work very easily, despite the fact that we will release scenarios as final products. I remember when people gave Alex Mor alot of **** for trying to charge for his scenarios, but in reality, if you undertand the kind of work that goes into making a scenario, you'll understand why he did that, and why graphic authors insist that you credit them. This isn't business, but it's unethical to steal intellectual work, at leas that's what I think. But again, I'm drunk. There's a high likelyhood that I'll erase this in the morning.

[TresXF]

i assume you try to make some money with the scenario stuff - you ARE drunk...

scenario and mod making should remain totally non-commercial. imho $$$ would suck the fun and idealism out of the creators. if someone is called for higher duties he/she should join a game company.

[hexagonian]

Almost forgot.

I can also provide pdf style documentation (tech tree posters, for example) that looks very professional.

Below is a sample to download and look at

[Hoek]

No, I wasn't suggesting that we should charge money. I was just using that as an example of someone who wanted to protect his work. I don't think people will want to make money off of it (nor should they), but I do think authors will want people to respect their intellectual work.

In terms of "setting up a database," that isn't really my goal with this thing yet. Perhaps it might become part of a website, but my goal is really to use the website to post our work, let people know about the guild, and post our progress on various works.

Andrew

[Immortal Wombat]

Ooh, bit dodgy posting a CtP2 tech-tree in a Civ3 forum It is rather good-looking though, so

Oh yeah, my other speciality, harrassing Hex with emails