What the Hell (excuse the language)

[TechWins]

So Firaxis should listen to popular will about some feature and impliment it even if it'll make the game worse (in this case, graphically)?

I've heard that the game can stay just as competitive in the graphics arena. To answer your question - yes, Firaxis should do whatever pleases the majority of the public, regardless of what the effects are.

[ChrisShaffer]

Of course, the respondents to the poll you cite represent perhaps 0.001% of the people who will buy Civ3. Also, it was a self-selected sample. So, it's mis-stating things to say the majority of the public.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Nemo

windowed games = no directX
no directX = crappy graphics
if the game was windows w/ crappy graphics, then everyone would complain about crappy graphics.
talk about a no win situation!

Did not know that, thanks for the info. It makes sense that they would choose a non-windowed mode, which I'm now glad they did. (I was one of the ones in the polls who asked for it to be windowed, I guess I should be more careful of what I ask for in the future!)

[MarkG]

does anyone remember a game, released in 2000 or 2001, that allowed windowed mode?

the only one i know is championship manager, but then again, it doesnt have any graphics...

[Sarxis]

I don't know of a single one, MarkG. Oh, except the one you just mentioned.

Though... I did manage to get Tribes2 into a window once- quite unexpected, and really not by desire.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I've heard that the game can stay just as competitive in the graphics arena. To answer your question - yes, Firaxis should do whatever pleases the majority of the public, regardless of what the effects are.

The majority of the public would rather have the better graphics (unit animations, leader animations, terrain) than a windowed mode. I know I would and so would most game players, I'm sure.

[Bkeela]

I wonder what a new poll would reveal, for I am also thankful it will be full screen. Poor office drones won't be able to play Civ III during work hours - BOO HOO!

Bkeela.

[orange]

I don't like how when you alt+tab away from a game to go do something, it isn't working in the background. This is a BIG problem with CtpII because it's so slow between turns, so you want to Alt+tab and do other things, but you can't or the game just pauses. If Civ III needs lots of time in between turns, I would much rather have windowed. Otherwise, the graphics are better in full screen mode.

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Nemo
windowed games = no directX

Are you sure? IIRC that's not a sw limit (Windows GUI routines use Direct X itself, IIRC). If you argue that calling Windows GUI libraries it's a bad use of resources, I can agree.

no directX = crappy graphics

AFAIK some great and fast FPS don't use DirectX at all, because using OpenGL they run faster and programming with OpenGL wasn't a mess as using DirectX.

IIRC using DirectX in full screen / not windowed really make simpler the task of programmers: no need to manage resize and lot of others events who can mess up the game interface.

Of course you need a 3D Card to use OpenGL. I'm only arguing about the link "No DirectX - Slow Graphic" you suggest.

Disclaimer: I'm no more a programmer, and I never programmed a game, so I can be deadly wrong

That said, I can live with a game full screen, if Alt+Tab works nicely.

[Fidel]

damn,
not being able to play the game at work while pretending that i am doing something useful is a big minus. it would be really cool to stare at the screen and fake some serious rethinking of our policies and regulations while mercilessly pounding some helpless civ

[dainbramaged13]

Originally posted by TechWins


Obviously you didn't read this part "I also don't want to hear any excuses of why it's not in "windowed" mode because there are none that are viable".

well then you dont give your opponents any chance to argue. you are going on a tirade without any hope for people against you to make a point

Firaxis should be able to provide the option of going into "windowed" mode to make most of their Civ community happy. I believe the poll to have "windowed" mode or full screen was in favor of windowed (ah screw the quotations) mode; the final results were something like 95% - 5%.

bull****... but even if it isn't apolyton does NOT represent the majority of the community. IT is mostly programmer/smart types who like to multitask - and that is not the majority of game players.

So really there is not a true excuse for Firaxis to not make Civ3 a windowed game or at least have the option to make it a windowed game. Having windowed mode is especially useful in MP, whenever that may be. Alt+Tab is just not enough; you would understand this if you would have read this "I don't want to have to open up all my applications before entering a game, so I can use alt+tab".

oh can it! you dont want to do this, you dont want to do that.. and all your proposed changes are at the expense of something that is to most people much more important... be logical please.

Who knows what applications you are going to want to open while playing the game.

well, as long as you have one other (non-fullscreen) app open, you can always open any others from that. In some gajmes ive played, you dont even have to have another app open, the alt-tab brings it right to the desktop... they say civ3 is alt-tab friendly...

Most of the time in SP it won't be many but you never know. Now this is just me but whenever I listen to MP3s when playing a full screen game they always seem to be glitchy. Once in a while the song might stop or start to sound fuzzy. Why take a chance of these annoyances occurring with full screen when you could be stress free with windowed mode? At least give the people who want to free movement a windowed mode option and those who like to have restrictions a full screen option.

you want them to do the graphics programming TWICE!?!

The only valid argument for windowed wan't even made by you, but by orange, with the point about how the program doens't keep functioning when you alt-tab, and if the turns take a long time on slower computers, its annoying.

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by TechWins


Obviously you didn't read this part "I also don't want to hear any excuses of why it's not in "windowed" mode because there are none that are viable".

Ah, so you don't want anyone to post anything but agreement with you, even if and/or when you're wrong? lol! Sorry, you should know better than that when posting here.

Firaxis should be able to provide the option of going into "windowed" mode to make most of their Civ community happy. I believe the poll to have "windowed" mode or full screen was in favor of windowed (ah screw the quotations) mode; the final results were something like 95% - 5%.

Ah, hate to break it to you but there are how many people who come here to Apolyton and how many people who will buy Civ3? A little clue for you, the people here at Apolyton aren't even CLOSE to representing the market for the game so your opinion and that poll means squat, other than something to do while we wait for the game.

So really there is not a true excuse for Firaxis to not make Civ3 a windowed game or at least have the option to make it a windowed game. Having windowed mode is especially useful in MP, whenever that may be. Alt+Tab is just not enough; you would understand this if you would have read this "I don't want to have to open up all my applications before entering a game, so I can use alt+tab". Who knows what applications you are going to want to open while playing the game.

Ah, windowed mode while playing MP, what an easy way to CHEAT. Yes, I am not saying you do cheat, but many people do, if not at Civ3 then at other games while playing MP, why make it easier for them?

And there is a reason to not make the game in a window, it's called DirectX, you know, the software that allow all other video cards besides the Voodoo series to offer good graphics?

Most of the time in SP it won't be many but you never know. Now this is just me but whenever I listen to MP3s when playing a full screen game they always seem to be glitchy. Once in a while the song might stop or start to sound fuzzy. Why take a chance of these annoyances occurring with full screen when you could be stress free with windowed mode? At least give the people who want to free movement a windowed mode option and those who like to have restrictions a full screen option.

CD-Burners and CD's (music) are cheap, if your PC can't handle the load/strain then burn the MP3's to CD or buy the music. Better yet, upgrade your PC if you want it to handle better loads.

Don't take my complaining or arrogance the wrong way. I'm most diffinitely going to buy Civ3 regardless of anything. Even more so now that I've paid $10 towards the game through the pre-order (few weeks back).

Hmm, so how can we take your arrogance the right way when you refuse to listen to valid reasons on why the game will run and look better in full mode? As Mark has said can you name a top 20 game in the last two years that has run in windowed mode? I can't.

List of games that run in full-screen:

Diablo2
Age of Kings
The Sims
Baldurs Gate 2
Icewind Dale
Rollercoaster Tycoon
Homeworld
Call to power (1 & 2)
Red Alert 2
Railroad Tycoon 2
Tropico
Half-Life
Black & White
Soldier of Fortune
Etc, etc...

These are simply games I have bought, played or heard about in the last two or three years that do not run in windowed mode. Windowed mode is dead, get used to it.

I hope you don't take my arrogance or corrections of your whining in the wrong way.

[Asesino_Virtual]

Realise that CIV2 was programmed for a WIN 3.1/11 envirioment, which didnt support full screen apps. I think if WIN 3.1 supported full screen apps, they would programme the game for full screen.

[Bleyn]

Ozzy: You forgot to mention a couple of games that albeit a wee bit over 2 years old are directly relevant. Namely the last two creations of Firaxis, Getysburg! and SMAC. Both of which are full screen games. Why should anyone expect them to change that policy now?


Personally, as sucky as the Windows GUI is, I am surprised that anyone would that desperately want a windowed mode. To me, the look and feel of the internal UI of Civ3 would be ruined by trying to shove it into a windowed mode.

[aiin]

actually

Diablo2 runs in window mode with the -w option you put in the shortcut. It actually runs faster on machines without a 3d card. Another game that just came out with window mode build in is Tropico.