War and Peace and Mobilizing

[HalfLotus]

Alot of posters are concerned about the plight of the warmonger. The ability to mobilize for war (half cost for military stuff) will give warmongers a shot in the arm. I'm not sure where Nationalism is on the tech tree, but I think it's before modern times.
Firaxis has implemented something that is realistic AND good for gameplay. Whatever shall we about now? It shouldn't be too hard to get a sizable army moving in just a few turns.
The ability to mobilze for war will make army building less of a hassle. Fewer turns, and presumably fewer clicks for me to get my war machine on the path to domination.

Next column:Mobilizing for peace.

[Roman]

The mobilizing concept gets thumbs up.

[Sava]

Agreed!

It should make for an interesting last minute defense strategy when you're pounding enemy cities with catapults.

[HalfLotus]

It would seem that during a time of peace you would ALWAYS want to be mobilized for peace (half cost for peaceful stuff). Of course, if you're attacked while you're military stuff is costing double you could be in trouble. (double trouble even.) I wonder if there is a penalty for switching back and forth similar to anarchy with the govs.

[Rakki]

i don't remember this but does mobilizing for war give you a science research bonus ?

I know the peaceniks will start screaming how warmongers are already powerful, but it's amazing how some technologies get developed really quickly during wartimes.

Alternatively:

Perhaps some technologies in the tech tree can be classified as "military" and would cost 50% more in peace time, and 50% less in war time to research. And vice versa for "Civilian" technologies.

[HalfLotus]

Afaik, mobilizing halves the cost (in sheilds) for building units, improvements, etc. Thus, if you are mobilized for war, a tank would cost half as many shields to build, but a temple would cost twice as many. I don't believe it has anything to do with science rate or discoveries.

[Ralf]

Is it even possible to conduct military wars without war-mobilizing ones economy, after one have discovered nationalism, in Civ-3? Or to put it in other words:
Is economical war-mobilization a free choice (I hope not), or is one forced to choose that alternative, whenever one wants to conduct any type of military war? (fighting barbarians being an exception, of course).

I hope one is forced to war-mobilize, because then all players have an incentive to make wars short and concentrated, followed-up with peace-treatys & stabilization, instead of those several-century long "eternal" wars we had in Civ-2.

[monkspider]

You feel that people MUST moblilize for war Ralf? I must disagree, I think if someone wants to try to pull off the legendary "guns and butter" war they should be able to, but at their own risk of course.

[HalfLotus]

I believe it's a choice to move to wartime/peacetime production. I think being forced into one of these would blow.

[Andrew_Jay]

The mobilization for war sounds great. . .
But it should be a choice. Perhaps whenever you declare war, or Someone declares war on you a prompt could come up and ask if you want to mobilise. In some games in Civ 2 I'd be at 'war' with someone on the other side of the world and we wouldn't do anything to each other. I'd hate to have to spend so many mroe shields on peaceful stuff jsut because some tiny civ nowhere near me won't sign a peace treaty.
And anyway, for short wars nations don't always mobilise their military a whole lot. I'm pretty sure the U.S. wasn't selling War Bonds and rationing butter when they invaded Grenada

[Ralf]

Originally posted by monkspider
You feel that people MUST moblilize for war Ralf? I must disagree, I think if someone wants to try to pull off the legendary "guns and butter" war they should be able to, but at their own risk of course.

This is what I found over at Civilization fanatic info center:
"Mobilizing for war halves the cost of all military units and improvements, but doubles all others. Once mobilized for war, you must select an enemy. You cannot switch out of a wartime economy until the war ends. Mobilizing for peace has the opposite effect, halving the cost of other improvements, but doubling your military expenditures."

My underlining. Now admittedly, above only describes the rules for war during war-mobilization. It doesnt necessarily say if conducting war is possible, while still maintaining normal, or even peace-mobilization. (I suspect that one must be peaceful/neutral with everybody before peace-mobilization even becomes a chooseable option).

But since the Nationalism-tech appears in the third era; the industrial age, and since the nationalism-tech most probably also incorporates the idea of military conscription - then perhaps its not that unlikely that conducting wars against equal empires in industrialized & nationalistic times actually forces you to war-mobilize 100%. After all; the game IS suppose to model the reality of that era, and the modern era as well.

[Inverse Icarus]

not enough.

nationalism comes too late in the game (one of the starter techs for the industrial age)

keep in mind that you have to finish off the bulk of ancient/middle age techs to get to the starter techs of the Industrial age, you can't just dive for nationalism as you would have in civ2.

and you can only have 1 army per every 4 cities until then.

sure, warmongers will typically have more, underdeveloped cities, but even 30 cities is only 7 armies and change.

and mobilizing for war doesnt sound too great, unless i understand it incorrectly. if you mobilize for WAR, your WAR RELATED costs go down, but OTHERS go up. and to be in a war economy you have to be in CONSTANT WAR, or the economy breaks down.

even war mongers love those few turns of extortion before more attacks.

"whenever krux offers peace, he just wants more time to rally his troops"

-Sman

[Lorizael]

The mobilizing for war and peace thing sounds really awesome. My question though is might it be too powerful to mobilize for peace? I mean once you got Nationalism why wouldn't you want to be mobilized for peace? But since war things will cost twice as much, I hope it'll be balanced out. Does mobilizing also effect support or just the actual production costs?

[faded glory]

This is going to Make PBEM very interesting. If it is expensive to mobilize armys.. Well, then human players will have difficulty being the world policeman. Carriers will be expensive, so much better then CTP. Where all you needed was 4-5 Carriers, and you canbe the 'Worlds Policeman' anyday.

Now its more difficult More realistic I like it

[Lorizael]

One abbreviation I never learned. PBEM... what's that stand for?