Will Civ3 Have A Scripting Language?

[Steve Clark]

EU is Civ2 with real changes, but that doesn't assume it's a better game.

As one who is planning on spending 90% of the time playing scenarios, this is a critical issue for me. The scenarios that came with MGE (FW) were lame because no one had figured out how to make clever use of the events, rules and batch files. If the exact same type of files are available for us within Civ3 (plus the usual scenario options), then I am confident that folks like Kull, Cpt Nemo, Harlan, BeBro and Stefan can figure out to make great scenarios, taking advantage of the great features like resources, diplomacy, culture and more ways of winning.

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by java4me
The only thing that sucks about not having a scripting language...

Is that I can't make mods to post on the internet!!!

java, I don't call Civ2's events.txt file a scripting language. Superb Civ2 scenarios have been developed in the past year or two without a scripting language.

[java4me]

Originally posted by Steve Clark


java, I don't call Civ2's events.txt file a scripting language. Superb Civ2 scenarios have been developed in the past year or two without a scripting language.

I never made mods for Civ2, but I did own CTP!!!

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by java4me


I never made mods for Civ2, but I did own CTP!!!

Sorry to hear that.

Seriously, I think some of the contention that we have here is that some folks have civ experience with only CtP. That's like joining an Advanced Pottery class when your only experience is with Play-Doh.

[java4me]

Originally posted by Steve Clark


Sorry to hear that.

Seriously, I think some of the contention that we have here is that some folks have civ experience with only CtP. That's like joining an Advanced Pottery class when your only experience is with Play-Doh.

I played Civ1 and Civ2 for years!!!

I just never made mods for them!!!

I don't like being treated this way!!!

[Locutus]

Excuse me? Who's being disrespectful now? CtP is full-flegded Civilization, just as much as Civ2, ToT and SMAC are. It has the name, it has the same idea and philosophy behind it, it has all the key elements. The only thing it lacks, according to some people, is atmosphere and the one-more-turn feeling (it goes without saying that I, and many with me, disagree on this). It's absolutely proposterous to claim a game that doesn't have the name Sid Meier on it isn't Civ. If you must compare, it's like flying a Cessna compared to flying a Boeing (which one is the Cessna and which the Boeing doesn't matter): there are many differences, esp. in appearences, but it's still flying...

[Steve Clark]

And one can make a vase with Play-Doh as well as with clay.

I really wasn't singling anyone out specifically, just a general observation that if you do not know what some of the great scenario designers have been able to do recently with Civ2, then you have very little basis for drawing a conclusion to what Civ3 can or can't do in making scenarios. How CtP does it is irrelevant for Civ3, imo. I do not know what the mechanics will be for Civ3, but with the high degree of customization and the appearance of scenarios, I am confident that many clever scenarios will be developed.

[cassembler]

Ok, so it's labeled a "conservative sequel."
[I will not disagree with that statement- 99% of all sequels are]

The only one thing that I will buy this game for: improved AI. Everything else is, to me, icing on the cake. If the AI sucks, then the game will as well. It can't, however, be any worse than Civ2.

I'm not looking for challenge, I'm looking for opponents with integrity. Civ2 AI civs were just like the goomba troopers in Mario Bros... just there for the stompin'.

So, that being said, I think that that one improvement is worth my $50. I would understand someone not agreeing with that, but my question [honestly]: what other games are there? I know they exist because your oppinion is so strong.

(BTW, ever play Command HQ? Was there ever a sequel?)

Oh wait, you're new around here (or at least not a regular visitor)?

Yes, I am, and I see that you are not.
I give all due respect, lad.

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
But how do You know there are scenario triggers? I would be half-way satisfied to know there is at least a similar system like in FW/TOT in place . But this hasn´t been positively affirmed as yet.

Firaxis announced that they would be providing better than ever support for the mod community. It was a long time ago but nothing since has toned down that ambition. Granted that they seem to be disregarding the amazing customisability of the CtP games completely (as with all other areas where CtP did manage to improve on the genre), it still implies more scenario potential than provided in any incarnation of Civ 2.

[Locutus]

Steve,
Have you ever played modded CtP? I am aware of the developments in Civ2 scenario design (I don't play or mod anymore but I do follow the news) and some cool things are done with it but without knowing the power of a scripting language you can't say it's not important. I have at least some experience with modding both series and I study Computer Science and from those experiences I can assure you that without basic concepts like variables or functions you are extremely limited in what you can mod. Without having experience with CtP or real programming languages you probably don't have a clue about the things that are possible with even a simple scripting language that aren't possible with the limited means for modding that Civ2 and even ToT provide. FE In CtP1 playing on flat maps was not possible but I wrote a simple piece of SLIC code that enabled this anyway, to my knowledge (relying on old memories here, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) something like that would have been impossible in Civ2. I could give dozens of other examples and explain in detail what makes it work in CtP that Civ2 simply doesn't have but I won't bore you with that. I'm sure some interesting things will be possible with Civ3 but it took people many years to figure the more interesting stuff out for Civ2 and Civ3 is an all new engine so you'll have to start from scratch again. More importantly, the limitations will still be way too frustrating for someone like me. For 'simple' (in CtP terms) scenarios Civ3 will no doubt be well equiped but for 'serious' (again in CtP terms) modding it's probably not ready without a scripting language.

cassembler,

The only one thing that I will buy this game for: improved AI

In that case you shouldn't have waited for Civ3, you could have bought CtP and downloaded some mods years ago. The more advanced of those mods give even the most experienced Deity a tough challenge...

It can't, however, be any worse than Civ2

From personal experience with other sequels, you'd be surprised... (no, I'm not saying Civ3's AI will suck, I'm saying don't take it for granted that newer is better)

Edit: since you're new here you may want to watch out for Yin26 He's slightly less radical in his criticism on Civ3 than me but he's legendary for eternally whining and whining and whining about it, while I only post about it when it happens to come up and I feel like complaining (not very often)...

[Steve Clark]

Locutus, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I will write a more measured response tomorrow when I have more time. To answer one of your questions, I've been in the IT field for over 20 years which includes many application development projects and have taught myself about 5-6 programming languages during that time. But that doesn't get at your point about why CtP needed a scripting language.

[Sarxis]

CTP is not a good game. Not CTP1, and definately not CTP2. Modded? No, never tried it. Why? Because when a game is just THAT BAD, I have no more time to waste on it.

Unfortunately, yes, CTP is CIV also, even if in name only; which may have lost us potential CIV community members after their disappointment.

Great job Activision

[Nemo]

Originally posted by Anunikoba
Great job Activision

do i sense some sort of sarcasm here?

[Locutus]

Steve,
Good plan, it's getting awfully late, at least in my timezone. However, from tomorrow onward I'll be out of town (and away from an Internet connection) for a couple of days, so don't be surprised if I don't reply to your reply anytime soon...

Anunikoba,
Actually, CtP gained the Civ community many more members than it lost (if any), something which you wouldn't know since I hardly ever see you in the CtP community so you don't who has a background there and who doesn't (I could easily name dozens of people who got into Civ because of CtP).

As far as the quality of CtP goes, you have your opinion and I have mine. I fully respect and can understand yours and I hope you do the same with mine (though seeing some of the posts you made today I have my doubts about that).

[Kull]

Locutus! Steve! Here's two guys I genuinely like, going at it hammer and tongs. As someone who's spent a fair amount of time on the CTP2 and Civ2 boards, let me say that you guys are far more alike than you know!

Now the real question....and I can scarcely believe I'm even ASKING this......Firaxis Guys PLEASE respond.......

Will Civ3 have an events language at least as powerful as that in Civ2?

And if so, is it included in this release?

(The answer has to be "yes".....the alternative is beyond belief)