Can't use roads during invasion?

[Father Beast]

I heard this somewhere, that you won't be able to use an enemy road or rail while invading them. Thing is, I can't imagine how this would work!

Would you be able to bring your own workers for prolonged sieges and build your own roads over their roads?

If you did, would they then not be able to use the roads you built?

this whole thing confuses me

[Skanky Burns]

ANY roads inside the cultural border of an enemy civ won't give you movement bonuses. If you bring in your own workers and build roads towards the enemy cities, they'll thank you by moving their armies towards you faster and attacking!! Or not. But you still wouldnt be able to use the roads. Once you take the city, then the enemy civs cultural border will shrink, and areas that were once inside their border will now be fully usable by your armies.

I guess this stops the "infinite howies" attack, where you move a howitzer by railroad directly to an enemy city, attack once, and retreat to a well-defended city of your own. Repeat with another howie, etc, until the enemy city (or empire) is out of soldiers. Then move a defensive unit into the cities to complete your invasion. This type of attack would leave you with no chance to retaliate in Civ 2, so the new road rules get a big

[Skanky Burns]

This probably would also apply to railroads. You might get *some* bonus movement from rails, or you may not. Will havta wait and see what Firaxis say For some interesting reading, look up Germany's trouble during WW2 trying to use Russia's rail network. To cut a long story short, they had a lot of trouble

[Bleyn]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
This probably would also apply to railroads. You might get *some* bonus movement from rails, or you may not. Will havta wait and see what Firaxis say For some interesting reading, look up Germany's trouble during WW2 trying to use Russia's rail network. To cut a long story short, they had a lot of trouble

I would think that you should be more likely to get bonuses from roads than from railroads during an invasion.

As you mention, there are a a number of problems with trying to use the local rail system in an invasion.

But I wouldn't think there shouldn't be quite as many issues with trying to use a regular road. True, it should be slower than normal road usage, but it should be at least slightly faster than cross country movement. Especially in forested areas, mountains, or in the industrial era.

[gremalkin]

This is an excellent idea..

Makes the tactics way more interesting..

[Gramphos]

I don't remember where I read it, but I think I've read this too, and I like it. It is dangerous to travel on roads, what if they are mined?

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Father Beast
I heard this somewhere, that you won't be able to use an enemy road or rail while invading them.

Here is the source: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=25768. My comment was:

"Sounds reasonable to me. Some civers may question why the invader cant use neither road-tripled or RR move-rates in enemy-territory. But remember that you only really control the local border-area expanding from the target-city, once you actually have succeeded in taking the city itself. Before that the invader is busy dealing with mines, blown-up bridges, removed roadsigns and so on (besides regular fighting) - all in order to slow down the advancement. Not to mention the usual food/fuel-logistical problems.

I agree though that completely nullified road/RR-bonus seems a little harsh. Treating both roads & railroads as roads with only doubled (not tripled) move-bonus, would be more enough to simulate above. As it stands, there is no incentive whatsoever to make use of enemy-roads - which is unrealistic since (after all) moving your tanks on enemy-roads or through enemy-mud DOES make a big difference."

Anyway, I like the overal idea, even without above change. Why? Well, heres what I replied to Recurve (sorry, Im to lazy to rewrite the same arguments with other words):

Originally posted by Recurve
Keep the unlimited MPs!
How else will I be able to wipe out half the world in a single turn?

My comment to that was:
"Above wont happen, since both roads and railroads are treated as non-existing in the invasion-phase. You can only take advantage of foreign road/RR infrastructure after you taken the foreign-land controlling city - and even then you can only use the road/RR-infrastructure within the culture-borders controlled by that newly conquered city.

Anyway, your argument is exactly the reason why I dont want Civ-2 style infinite RR-moves. The player take advantage of this, and the AI cannot possibly play on equal terms. How fun is that?
I say; give railroads a fixed (but editable) move-radius, without combat attrition-cost and regardless land-unit, within your own homeland & within conquered secured enemy-land".

[PGM]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
(...) the new road rules get a big

Agreed.

[Inverse Icarus]

oohhh, this is one feature i asked for and it looks like i got it

i cant see Allied tanks being transported on German rails, unless of course the Allies are occupying cities nearby.

next question, roads on neutral land? for example on route to colonies? who gets bonuses?

[Gramphos]

Kruxy, they might have portable trains building up on the filed.

[Inverse Icarus]

[Gramphos]

How long would it take to put a train together? more or less time then hijacking a train?

[Inverse Icarus]

more.

laying the track? a while.

and portable?

the tracks have to be nailed into thew ground or the train would tip.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by UberKruX
more.

laying the track? a while.

and portable?

the tracks have to be nailed into thew ground or the train would tip.

I was thinking of just bringing the train, and adjust it to the current track, but why not build the railway network while attacking as well. Our navvy squad has finished the railway to Moscow, now we only have to build the train and start our journey.

[kittenOFchaos]

This is a remarkably good idea...it gets my FULL support

Roads in invasions are closed off, mined and guarded not a conduit for an enemy invasion...bye, bye empires falling easily in 1 turn.