I cannot stress how important these changes are

[korn469]

Warm Beer

hehe i like the zen mode, quite insightful

but besides realism, if they don't the at least one non specialist per city, army laundering will be out of control! it's needed as a check on supporting armies by gold, plus it would be to actually have situations where you couldn't avoid riots by just turning everyone into entertainers, that is an exploit to me, i doubt that Sid wanted the game to be like that

i wanna see M.A.D. i really do

[TechWins]

i wanna see M.A.D. i really do

Believe me, we all do! Even if a simple system of MAD was implemented I would be happy. I don't care too much about all the nuclear winter graphics and other goodies like that.

[dainbramaged13]

Originally posted by korn469
TechWins

i truly believe that those small changes which might take a couple of hours to do at most (a few minutes to do at least) would change the game to a significant degree in a very positive manner, ending vast exploitation of the game in the form of army laundering and ICS, plus it would make the game harder on diety

if only they see them i think they will consider them

dude, MAD, in a few hours!?!? even if they could do it in less than a day, i wouldn't want it, it would be so crappy! if mads not in, which i doubt it is, since firaxis is hyping all thier features, and its not one of them, youre gonna hvae to wait maybe for expansion pack or civ4 but even so... your demand for mad so late is unreasonable. youre really looking desparate now. A few months ago, even, it was a little late to ask for MAD, when youre HUGE thread popped up. (i know youd mentioned it before...) and now, it just makes you look like a desperate idiot with a one-track mind.

[korn469]

dainbramaged13

dude, MAD, in a few hours

if you had of read the post carefully you would have seen i was talking about changing granaries and the one pop must be working a tile rule, and not M.A.D. though we cannot say how much programming time it would take to implement M.A.D.

if mads not in, which i doubt it is, since firaxis is hyping all thier features, and its not one of them

well firaxis just sprange the whole civ atributes on us without hyping it, and like i said they have hyped something that sounds like M.A.D.

this is Jeff Briggs own words from the gamespot uk preview

"There are two types of nuclear weapon," says Briggs. "We have ICBMs that can hit anything on the map and tactical nukes which can be put on submarines and launched as cruise missiles. If you think that you can have a war and launch tactical nukes without it escalating to anything more serious you can try it, but it's a challenge in the game just to survive that whole era.

"The nuclear war part of the game should be (and this is something that we're working on) something that you come to and pass through. In Civ II it's sort of the end point. When you get nukes, everybody gets nukes and the game is pretty much over. In this game, if you're the first person to get them then you will have an opportunity to benefit, but once everybody else gets them it's unlikely that you can use them and have a successful game."

the screenshots back this up

A few months ago, even, it was a little late to ask for MAD, when youre HUGE thread popped up.

i've been asking for M.A.D. for over a year now, sometime in winter of 1999 is when i first started asking for it and i have had many huge threads on M.A.D.

it just makes you look like a desperate idiot with a one-track mind.

if i am a desperate idiot with a one track mind so be it
i always wanted to be known for something
M.A.D. would be a good feature for civ3 to have and i hope it makes it into the game

btw other people have asked for other features, so they are all desperate idiots too?

[Mister Pleasant]

Hopefully, things like the amount of increase graineries, libraries, and such bring can be edited. If not, edit the graineries out and see if it works.

[yin26]

so they are all desperate idiots too?

Now listen carefully. The ONLY desperate idiot around here is me...and I've been IT for two years. I simply REFUSE to let other people share the title now...

[korn469]

Mister Pleasant

without granaries then ICS will still be a strategy but not nearly as powerful as it was in Civ2, so your solution of editing out the granary is valid, but i hope that firaxis and not the players can fix this problems, and the scenario editor can't fix everything, some rules are built into the game and the player can't change them

in SMAC the player couldn't edit out population booms or change the value each level of morale provided

[korn469]

lol

Yin if you are the only desperate idiot maybe i can be an irredeemable fool

[Mister Pleasant]

but i hope that firaxis and not the players can fix this problems, and the scenario editor can't fix everything, some rules are built into the game and the player can't change them

Yeah, I hope Firaxis releases a game and not a development platform (e.g. CTP and CTP2) myself.

SMAC also had its problems - most noticably the AIs insistence on ICSing sea cities. Game is pretty good ever since I altered alpha.txt so that no one can build sea cities (although you can still submerge regular cities).

But again, a functioning game out of the box would be nice for a change.

[Father Beast]

Re: I cannot stress how important these changes are

Originally posted by korn469
These are a few small last minute changes that are vital in my opinion to Civ3

1. All cities always need at least one population point per city who cannot be made into a specialist.

It's anti-ICS, anti-army laundering, anti-cheese! It's simple elegent, and easy to understand. It floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee, it's like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! It's less cheating! Works Great! Civ3 needs this!

OK, it could be put in at this point, but I still question whether it should. I realize it would deal with a lot of problems, but it makes me nervous. could work.

Originally posted by korn469
2. Granaries should at most reduce the food requirements by 30%. (even 1/3 could be too much)

Granaries will bring back ICS if granaries work like they do in civ2, so please change granaries so they won't reduce food required by more than 30%. It will make all the difference needed in the game! Please please please!

This is quite a good idea, and if the files are editable as we want them to be, a little balancing during testing could put this change in easily.

I understand that (again, if the game is editable enough) you could change them to suit you whim after getting it, and then nobody would play MP with you (if there is MP) because you're too "wimpy" to play by the original rules and ICS with the rest. also, your comparison games would be disallowed because you're not playing with the original rules. if they fix it before shipping, however, everybody has a challenge, and none of the others wil sneer at you for not playing with the "original" set, as if the original rules are holy writ...
(sigh) people are stupid. Wizards first rule)

Originally posted by korn469
3. Add the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction (M.A.D.) to civ3.

It will reinvigorate the modern age, it will balance gameplay at the end of the game, and it will make civ3 the best game ever. I've got M.A.D. on the brain! Civ3 has got to have it!



if you need full details on the strategy exploits these changes will end just ask me

support this thread people! let firaxis know you want these changes!

Sorry, but if its not in, its not in. might be, though. I can just see Firaxis just failing to tell us these little details. kind of like my own pet peeve, improved road and rail rules.

I support this thread!!

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by korn469
i asked for M.A.D. years ago, and i have continued to ask for it since then...does that count?

Yes, the key is to stop asking now

you have completely misunderstood me Sabre2th and i will edit my original post

what I mean is this

1. All cities always need at least one population point per city who cannot be made into a specialist.

So all this time, we were talking about different workers. I don't have a strong opinion on this, now that I know what you're talking about.

[korn469]

Yes, the key is to stop asking now

even if it doesn't come out in Civ3 there is always the expansion

So all this time, we were talking about different workers. I don't have a strong opinion on this, now that I know what you're talking about.

yes we were talking about completely different things

OK, it could be put in at this point, but I still question whether it should. I realize it would deal with a lot of problems, but it makes me nervous. could work.

now unless they have changed how military unhappiness in republic and democracy works (and they might have) then this is essential, because otherwise, a player could base all of his units in a single city and then goto war and not have to worry about unhappiness, because the units are now supported by gold a single city could support them all, and if the city is a size one city and its only population point is an entertainer, then no unrest is caused by a massive military invasion

also this prevents ICS because in civ2 if you built too many cities under monarchy for example then many (all?) of your cities would have one extra unhappy person if you are playing on deity this means that your size one city would then be unhappy, well in civ2 no big deal you just turn this population point into an entertainer...in civ3 you would have to carefully plan expansion

also the new nationality segment of civ3 could benefit

player launches a blitzkrieg across a large continant...now instead of dealing with the unhappiness that player just turns all of the people into entertainers and now they won't revolt because they are no longer unhappy, so a whole entire feature has now been undermined, there was increased unhappiness when you took an enemy city in SMAC, and usually if you took a great number of enemy cities in a single turn this is what the player would do

it would solve a great number of problems in civ3, and it would be very simple to implement, it is by far the most important change they could make at this stage

I understand that (again, if the game is editable enough) you could change them to suit you whim after getting it, and then nobody would play MP with you (if there is MP) because you're too "wimpy" to play by the original rules and ICS with the rest. also, your comparison games would be disallowed because you're not playing with the original rules. if they fix it before shipping, however, everybody has a challenge, and none of the others wil sneer at you for not playing with the "original" set, as if the original rules are holy writ

Father Beast this is exactly how i feel on editing the game! That is the reason why i think it is vital for Civ3 to be balanced out of the box

[tniem]

Re: I cannot stress how important these changes are

Originally posted by korn469
1. All cities always need at least one population point per city who cannot be made into a specialist.

Simple rule change, good idea.

2. Granaries should at most reduce the food requirements by 30%. (even 1/3 could be too much)

The ICS thread proved this to be necessary. I will suppor the idea.

3. Add the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction (M.A.D.) to civ3.

I hope that MAD has already been added. If not Firaxis has dropped the ball on this one. But as you have indicated it appears that Firaxis has at least indicated that MAD has been considered. They hopefully have given some attempts at including it.


And Yin, you are the only desperate idiot? You obviously have been reading a different forum than I have.

[yin26]

Few people have worked as hard as I have to prove his idiocy. Surely you'll run with me on that one.

P.S. Nice sig! Spread the word, brother!

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by yin26
Few people have worked as hard as I have to prove his idiocy. Surely you'll run with me on that one.

P.S. Nice sig! Spread the word, brother!

Now listen carefully. The ONLY desperate idiot around here is me...and I've been IT for two years.

So you are the one who last longer, but you aren't necessary the greatest idiot around...

Not to mention I can be the largest: my weight is over 100Kg (around 230 lb).