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I assume that Civ 3 will be like the earlier Civ games in the regard that a good player on chieftain will be able to have Tanks vs Phalanx battles.
What bothers me about this is that the first time guns started appearing in battle, it didn't take long for the first defeated foes to find a gun on the battle field, and reproduce it. The first muskets that appeared were very crude, and easily reproduced. Then once a country made a breakthrough, like say, the idea of rifling, everyone else copied it. You have to remember that in the past there wasn't this super secret group of scientists sitting around making these discoveries. Inventors and blacksmiths made the initial discoveries, not the governments. Then weapons were produced and sold to armies. Guns, especially were and still are sold like milk at a grocery store. In WWI there were only 4 major types of guns being used. And they all were copies of the original Mauser, bolt action design.
I don't think it is possible to have such a gap in technology between close rival civs, especially in the times when firearms were first invented, because lines of communication were so open and there was no such thing as a state secret. Even in medieval times, a Frenchman could walk into an English village and watch a Blacksmith work and learn how to make a sword. The exchange of knowledge was so prevelant and so common, which is why Civ fails in its technology model.
Even the atomic bomb didn't remain a secret for long. 56 years after it was first used, anyone with internet access can look up how to make one. I hope that Firaxis fixes this problem because even on the easy difficulties, that is just too unrealistic for me. I know people like to bash realism in the civ games, but that gap in science is too much.
Most people will read this and say, "but what about the third world countries today? They aren't as advanced as the US."
The reason those countries aren't advanced is because they don't have the resources in which to build an infrastructure. It's not as if a country like Zimbabwe can't build a space shuttle, I'm sure if they wanted to, they could learn how in less than 5 years because that knowledge is so common. It's that Zimbabwe doesn't have the resources to make a space shuttle. Revolutions, such as firearms in warfare, and the industrial revolutions, have taken place in every country with the means to build an infrastructure. It has nothing to do with their scientific power. Any scientific advance that is going to be so helpful and so common, isn't going to remain a secret. When railroads were first discovered, any country that had the resources built railroads because technologies like that can't be kept secret. In the Civ games there is no concept of world travel. Even in ancient times, people traveled the world to trade and discover new things. And in doing that people learned how to do new things. How to make glass, how to work with metal, how to make guns, how to build airplanes, how to refine oil, etc.
Certain things aren't really scientific advances at all. Naval Aviation, for instance... someone just said, hey lets land planes on ships. Once one nation started doing it, everyone else who wanted to did it. Another example would be the Wheel. Once one person started making wheels, it didn't take long for someone to say hey, that thing is round and it rolls. I can use horses to pull things. Most people will read this and say, "DUH" But other people will get mad and say, "uh this ruins game play". Unfortunately some people are just so stubborn.
I think discoveries need to be seperated and not grouped as just "science". I propose a building called a weapons workshop that would just work on building weapons. Then you (as ruler) would give money to the workshop to design weapons. And once new weapons were seen, they could be reproduced if you had the necessary materials.
Other techs, such as construction and engineering techs should be grouped in other areas. And would be built according to the needs. Sanitation is an example. Once a city gets large enough to need a sewer system, its not going to take long for a person to design something and build it. This could be worked in to the game like this: A menu would pop up saying, "Sire, the streets are covered in filth, my engineers have proposed building a system that would carry away waste water" Then you could appropriate workers to build such a system. Engineering evolved from trial and error. Roman engineers discovered the dome like support structure and using stone, build aqueducts to supply people with water. They didn't wait for some discovery, when they need arose, people did what needed to be done to solve the problem.
In a game about humans, lets make them act like humans. But before you bash my realism ideas, lets remember that we (the users) give ideas, and the programmers worry about how to make them fun. Imagine that the ideas people give could be implemented to make the game fun, and please don't bash ideas.
What bothers me about this is that the first time guns started appearing in battle, it didn't take long for the first defeated foes to find a gun on the battle field, and reproduce it. The first muskets that appeared were very crude, and easily reproduced. Then once a country made a breakthrough, like say, the idea of rifling, everyone else copied it. You have to remember that in the past there wasn't this super secret group of scientists sitting around making these discoveries. Inventors and blacksmiths made the initial discoveries, not the governments. Then weapons were produced and sold to armies. Guns, especially were and still are sold like milk at a grocery store. In WWI there were only 4 major types of guns being used. And they all were copies of the original Mauser, bolt action design.
I don't think it is possible to have such a gap in technology between close rival civs, especially in the times when firearms were first invented, because lines of communication were so open and there was no such thing as a state secret. Even in medieval times, a Frenchman could walk into an English village and watch a Blacksmith work and learn how to make a sword. The exchange of knowledge was so prevelant and so common, which is why Civ fails in its technology model.
Even the atomic bomb didn't remain a secret for long. 56 years after it was first used, anyone with internet access can look up how to make one. I hope that Firaxis fixes this problem because even on the easy difficulties, that is just too unrealistic for me. I know people like to bash realism in the civ games, but that gap in science is too much.
Most people will read this and say, "but what about the third world countries today? They aren't as advanced as the US."
The reason those countries aren't advanced is because they don't have the resources in which to build an infrastructure. It's not as if a country like Zimbabwe can't build a space shuttle, I'm sure if they wanted to, they could learn how in less than 5 years because that knowledge is so common. It's that Zimbabwe doesn't have the resources to make a space shuttle. Revolutions, such as firearms in warfare, and the industrial revolutions, have taken place in every country with the means to build an infrastructure. It has nothing to do with their scientific power. Any scientific advance that is going to be so helpful and so common, isn't going to remain a secret. When railroads were first discovered, any country that had the resources built railroads because technologies like that can't be kept secret. In the Civ games there is no concept of world travel. Even in ancient times, people traveled the world to trade and discover new things. And in doing that people learned how to do new things. How to make glass, how to work with metal, how to make guns, how to build airplanes, how to refine oil, etc.
Certain things aren't really scientific advances at all. Naval Aviation, for instance... someone just said, hey lets land planes on ships. Once one nation started doing it, everyone else who wanted to did it. Another example would be the Wheel. Once one person started making wheels, it didn't take long for someone to say hey, that thing is round and it rolls. I can use horses to pull things. Most people will read this and say, "DUH" But other people will get mad and say, "uh this ruins game play". Unfortunately some people are just so stubborn.
I think discoveries need to be seperated and not grouped as just "science". I propose a building called a weapons workshop that would just work on building weapons. Then you (as ruler) would give money to the workshop to design weapons. And once new weapons were seen, they could be reproduced if you had the necessary materials.
Other techs, such as construction and engineering techs should be grouped in other areas. And would be built according to the needs. Sanitation is an example. Once a city gets large enough to need a sewer system, its not going to take long for a person to design something and build it. This could be worked in to the game like this: A menu would pop up saying, "Sire, the streets are covered in filth, my engineers have proposed building a system that would carry away waste water" Then you could appropriate workers to build such a system. Engineering evolved from trial and error. Roman engineers discovered the dome like support structure and using stone, build aqueducts to supply people with water. They didn't wait for some discovery, when they need arose, people did what needed to be done to solve the problem.
In a game about humans, lets make them act like humans. But before you bash my realism ideas, lets remember that we (the users) give ideas, and the programmers worry about how to make them fun. Imagine that the ideas people give could be implemented to make the game fun, and please don't bash ideas.
Civ-3 gameplay & game-balance should always, with out exception, be given veto-priority, over "real world realism", then deciding about game-mechanics. If it can be combined - fine. If not, then...
- soon to be banned if you not careful.
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