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  • A reason for advanced armour

    I’ve been thinking about why advanced armour is being added to Civ3. The question has come up in another thread. I think the reason relates to game play rather than a desire to add a cool unit.

    One problem/blessing in Civ2 was that in the late modern era, the howitzer is the ultimate attack weapon. Once you have the howitzer, you can cut through the other civs like a knife through butter. The AI rarely ever manages to stop a massed assault of howitzers Tanks become effective obsolete because there is no reason to build these units for offensive reasons, at least not on the scale of howitzers. Defence is left to mech infantry.

    In Civ 3, the howitzer is apparently going to become even more powerful with the added ability of bombardment. That could unbalance the game play if left unchecked.

    Adding a new advanced armour unit will put the game back on an even keel. The adv. armour will likely have attack strength equal to a howitzer, defence equal to or stronger than mech inf, movement of three or four, but it will be more expensive to build. My bet is that the advanced armour will be a 12-6-3 unit.

    Making the attack strength equal to howitzer would match existing model where the ordinary tank has an attack of 10, the same as artillery. Matching the defence of the mech infantry would ensure that mech inf remain useful. The Mech infantry’s cheaper price would still keep it as a viable unit.

    The howitzer would still be useful since the cost of building it would be lower than building an advanced armour. And of course there is the benefit of being able to bombard.

    So the question then becomes, assuming adv. armour is a 12-6-3 unit, is this a good thing? Would you prefer to keep the howitzer strong so that you can easily cut through other civs, or do you want the howitzer’s role diminished?
    Golfing since 67

  • #2
    You have to remember though Howitzer (and Catapults and Cannons) will be more like artillery in SMAC - i.e. they won't be able to attack other units directly, just bombard them. So still, you won't be able to capture a defended city if you only have Howitzers - you will need tanks for that.
    The problem with leadership is inevitably: Who will play God?
    - Frank Herbert

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    • #3
      how do you know that it wont be like in ctp, where a unit that has bombardment capability has 2 attack numbers, one for bombarding, one for attacking... maybe it can do both.
      And God said "let there be light." And there was dark. And God said "Damn, I hate it when that happens." - Admiral

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      • #4
        Originally posted by dainbramaged13
        how do you know that it wont be like in ctp, where a unit that has bombardment capability has 2 attack numbers, one for bombarding, one for attacking... maybe it can do both.
        Could be, but the howitzer is still too strong.
        Golfing since 67

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        • #5
          Though I like the idea of advanced armour, I do think it is not right to have it as the pinnacle together with the howitzer. In modern days, warfare is dominated by small-scale bushfighting, with individual soldiers becoming a valuable asset (valuable in the sense that they are no longer so very expandable anymore).

          Strong, pesky, hard to rout guerilla's should emerge at a certain point, making conquest tougher. Hey! Wait a minute...I'm thinking of ways to make it more difficult for myself! I must be losing sanity.

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          • #6
            But any major war in this era would be fought mainly with tanks, making their creation in the game a must.
            I never know their names, But i smile just the same
            New faces...Strange places,
            Most everything i see, Becomes a blur to me
            -Grandaddy, "The Final Push to the Sum"

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            • #7
              Advanced armor should be able to bombard as well as attack.

              Modern tanks have very long ranges.

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              • #8
                well if you look at the screen shots a catapult has the following stats 0(4).0.1 so catapults cannot attack or defend by themselves but they an bombard, most likely howitzers will follow the same pattern

                another thing to think about is the number of mounted units in civ3 has been decreased so the early armor unit fills a needed slot

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                • #9
                  I would say the best reason is the same one as for advanced fighters, bombers, and cruisers. All of these are vehicles/vessels where the capabilities of the modern version far outstripe the versions of 100, 75, or even 50 years ago. They are of the same lineage, but they just aren't the same in so many respects where it really counts.

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                  • #10
                    Modern armour doesn't have the range of artillery. I don't think you can use it to bombard anyway the tanks aren't designed for that.
                    (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                    (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                    (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Urban Ranger
                      Modern armour doesn't have the range of artillery. I don't think you can use it to bombard anyway the tanks aren't designed for that.
                      I agree. Correct me if I'm wrong. The modern artillery range is between 20 and 40 km (12 - 25 miles). Range of modern tanks at maximum is only roughly half of the artillery range.
                      I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are still missing.

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                      • #12
                        It depends what Kind of tanks. The Russians/Arabs use there T-72's because they are smooth bore and when propped up on a hill, have the ability to lob a shell 10-15 miles.

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                        • #13
                          the howitzers unless on a mountain were good when used with mech inf. stacks cos their defnce was badish so tanks could kill them
                          there is about 3 tanks, one a special unit for the germans (panzer) i think
                          Just my 2p.
                          Which is more than a 2 cents, about one cent more.
                          Which shows you learn something every day.
                          formerlyanon@hotmail.com

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                          • #14
                            I really like the idea that the artillery (long-range) concept from SMAC is returning in Civ3. My one question though is how artillery will be used in armies? Ar armies to only consist of direct-attack (infantry, tanks, mech inf, etc) units? Or can combining artillery and tank units yield extra attack bonuses?

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                            • #15
                              Oh yeah, I like the advanced armor idea, as the modern units need extra gameplay options, although I hope that that the advanced tanks don't make normal tanks obsolete, just outclassed, but much cheaper, such that wars with WWII Panzer vs Sherman tanks can happen as the Shermans were hopelessly outclassed, but were victorious out of shear numbers (aka Hive or Believer strategies in SMAC)

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