Do we need the unit-trigger for Golden Age?

[Ralf]

The team at Firaxis have added (or replaced) the trigger for Golden Age: http://www.civ3.com/devupdate.cfm

Now you can trigger your Golden Age by building wonders according to your civ-abilities. I think that this trigger is so good that the specific unit-trigger isnt needed anymore. Agree or not?

I want to be able to fight with those specific units, without risking having a forced upon Golden Age, then Im perhaps not ready for it.

[Gramphos]

What happens if you can't get the wonders with your abilities or if someone sets all abilities?

I think you need a "backup".

[The diplomat]

I think we need BOTH triggers. There has to be a trigger for the warmonger who can't or doesn't want to build a certain wonder! Otherwise we are in a situation just like before where one player has to compromise their strategy to get a GA. Isn't that why we asked for a peaceful trigger in the first place?

However, I would suggest that the militaristic trigger be made more difficult since the peaceful trigger is pretty tough. I would suggest that you need to win say 4 battles with a UU to trigger a GA. Just like the peaceful player has to build 1 or 2 wonders to get a GA which isn't easy, now the warmonger would have to fight to get their GA! 1 win with a UU is way too easy!Furthermore, it would avoid unwanted GA's. The player who uses a UU to desperately defend a city won't get a GA when they did not want it.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Gramphos
What happens if you can't get the wonders with your abilities or if someone sets all abilities?

You can always get wonders with your abilities, since also small wonders triggers Golden Age. And everybody can build small wonders, since they are non-exclusive.

If you want the unit-trigger; at least choose the third alternative. Why should one be forced to accept golden age, just because one single specific unit won a battle? It must be better and more challenging militaristic triggers. The present unit-trigger is to lame.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Ralf
You can always get wonders with your abilities, since also small wonders triggers Golden Age. And everybody can build small wonders, since they are non-exclusive.

But if the wonder of one of the abilities is captured before you have built the other.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Gramphos
But if the wonder of one of the abilities is captured before you have built the other.

Isnt that a little far-fetched? Anyway, why should Golden Age be a 100% guaranteed God-given right? The present military trigger is too easy and unchallenging, if not else.

[Gramphos]

Wait!
It is only the Great Wonders that can trigger Golden Age. I read the text again, slowly this time
[color={qcolor}]Great Wonders are also now associated with one or more of the Civilization strengths[/color]

[Andrew1999]

I vote for having it be selectable by the player as one of the game setup options--military only, peaceful only or both. That seems to be the way they're going with a lot of things (civ special powers, victory conditions) and it's an easy way to make everyone happy.

[RobC]

Originally posted by The diplomat
However, I would suggest that the militaristic trigger be made more difficult since the peaceful trigger is pretty tough. I would suggest that you need to win say 4 battles with a UU to trigger a GA. Just like the peaceful player has to build 1 or 2 wonders to get a GA which isn't easy, now the warmonger would have to fight to get their GA! 1 win with a UU is way too easy!Furthermore, it would avoid unwanted GA's. The player who uses a UU to desperately defend a city won't get a GA when they did not want it.

If you really want to make it challenging, you should make the trigger getting a UU to elite status! That would certainly take some doing (assuming the patrol cheat doesn't work the way it did in SMAC!!!)

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Gramphos
Wait!
It is only the Great Wonders that can trigger Golden Age. I read the text again, slowly this time
Great Wonders are also now associated with one or more of the Civilization strengths

So "Art of war" is a great wonder? I dont think so.

I vote for having it be selectable by the player as one of the game setup options--military only, peaceful only or both. That seems to be the way they're going with a lot of things (civ special powers, victory conditions) and it's an easy way to make everyone happy.

Well, why not? Or by fiddling the Rules.txt files. Just give me an option to bypass forced upon 1 successful battle Golden Ages. Its rather sad though that so many voters didnt (at least) choose the third alternative. Only Diplomat have openly agreed so far that the present specific unit-trigger needs an upgrade.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Ralf
So "Art of war" is a great wonder? I dont think so.

Well, I don't think so. You mean that the thing about only great wonders have abilities is a typo on civ3.com?

[Bereta_Eder]

Having a UU triggered GA is way to easy compared to what you have to do to get a peaceful trigger.

ANd GA shouldn't be about war and warmongering.

So I say we don't need the UU trigger.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Gramphos
Well, I don't think so. You mean that the thing about only great wonders have abilities is a typo on civ3.com?

Yes - It cant be Great wonders only, because there is only 12 of them in the game - and upto 8 players competing building them. How many of these great wonders are available for each civ-ability (there are 6 of those: militaristic, commercial, expansionist, scientific, religious and industrious)? And each of the 8 civs have two abilities each, remember. As you can see those great wonders would quickly be unavailable as Golden age-triggers. So small wonders is obviously also needed.

Originally posted by paiktis22
Having a UU triggered GA is way to easy compared to what you have to do to get a peaceful trigger.

Whats what I keep telling them. The present unit-trigger is infact so easy that you almost stumbles into Golden Age by accident. No effort is needed whatsoever - well, that 1 battle won by specific unit, but thats pathetic compared with the relatively hard wonder-trigger.

[Gramphos]

Not all wonders have just one ability.

Edited, due to thinking error in first time. Now it says What I meant from the beginning

[Skanky Burns]

We definately do need a military trigger to spark a GA!! Like Diplomat said before, the peaceful trigger was asked for so players didnt have to play in a style they weren't comfortable with... So why go too far and now force the warmonger to play a peaceful role?? I do like the idea of having to win 5 combat rounds with your UU to get the GA, as this would actually make you earn it more than just having the one win.

However, i dont support changing things just for the sake of it.