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Hi I'm Lancer, you might remember me from such classics as 'The First Ever Civ 3...

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  • #31
    Re: Settings

    Originally posted by Wittlich
    IMO, since no one has played CIV3 yet (and no one knows what to expect), we should set the difficulty on "medium" (or Prince, for lack of a known term for the game setting), or even medium-hard (I guess that would be the "king" setting).

    I've been thinking about what Lancer said in reference to the "teams" being sponsored by various forums ... Are the teams being slotted in different forums a necessity?

    You know, we could just have an open sign-up for a given period of time. Then, when the sign-up window closes, start the games with everyone on their own (no teams). For instance, depending on the maximum number of players allowed, the first 7 players that signed up start a game, players 8-14 start a game, players 15-21 start a game, and so on. The winners of these games would them move on to a second game (and depending on how many players we have signed up, there would be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, and so on game) - until there is only one player standing.

    This brings another thought to mind - The Civ3 Release date. If Civ3 is released in America by mid-October, and the game is released in Europe in February 2002; we shouldn't have the championship until everyone can compete. What I'm saying is that launching the actual Apolyton Championship is dependent on the world-wide release on the game - since the Apolyton Forum is made-up from people world-wide.

    So, any thoughts?

    I agree with both of your points. DOWN WITH TEAMS! UP WITH GIVING U.S. PLAYERS A CHANCE TO PRACTICE WITH THE NEW SYSTEMS *ahem* I MEAN GIVING EUROPEAN PLAYERS A CHANCE TO COMPETE

    And God said "let there be light." And there was dark. And God said "Damn, I hate it when that happens." - Admiral

    Comment

    • #32
      Originally posted by TechWins
      Would anybody like to have a two game elimination?
      Actually TechWins, I was on the same line of thought. I know that everyone has a "bad" game once in a while. With a two-game elimination, you could still loose one game and still be in the running. What does everyone else think?
      ____________________________
      "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
      "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
      ____________________________

      Comment

      • #33
        Actually TechWins, I was on the same line of thought. I know that everyone has a "bad" game once in a while. With a two-game elimination, you could still loose one game and still be in the running. What does everyone else think?
        Yeah, you could be the best civ player in the world but some string of bad luck could haunt you and make you lose the whole tournament. Therefore if you are the best civ player in the world and you have a bad luck game and you lose then you will still have another chance to redeem your self.

        Round One
        Game1
        P1-1
        P1-2
        Winner is P1-2
        Game2
        P2-1
        P2-2
        Winner is P2-1
        Game3
        P3-1
        P3-2
        Winner is P3-2
        Game4
        P4-1
        P4-2
        Winner is P4-2

        Round Two
        Game 1
        P1-2
        P2-1
        Winner is P2-1
        Game2
        P3-2
        P4-2
        Winner is P3-2
        Game3
        P1-1
        P2-2
        Winner is P1-1
        Game4
        P3-1
        P4-1
        Winner is P4-1

        Round Three
        Game1
        P2-1
        P3-2
        Winner is P2-1
        Game2
        P1-2
        P4-2
        Winner is P1-2
        Game3
        P1-1
        P4-1
        Winner is P4-1

        Round Four
        Game1
        P2-1
        P4-1
        Winner is P4-1
        Game2
        P3-2
        P1-2
        Winner is P1-2

        Round Five
        Game1
        P2-1
        P1-2
        Winner is P2-1

        Round Six
        P4-1
        P2-1
        Winner is P2-1

        The winner of the tournament would be P2-1

        [P is for player, the first # is for the first game # you played, & the second # is for the player you were in that game]

        That was just a little mini view of what an actual tournament might be like. Who would like this system?

        I happen to like this system because P4-1 lost his/her first game but wound up making it to the finals. P2-1 won all of his/her games until the second to last game but he/her was not eliminated from the tourney. For me this system is very simple and if I fully explained everybody else would be able to understand very easily as well.

        If you have any questions on the system, such as how did I determine in Round three that P4-1 plays P1-1 instead of P1-2, please ask them.
        However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

        Comment

        • #34
          I like it. Its got my vote
          ____________________________
          "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
          "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
          ____________________________

          Comment

          • #35
            Wittlich, you guys want no teams, no teams it is. Also, I don't want to pass on the chance of kicking some eoro butt so we'll wait. That means that we can iron out the details of the competition between now and the euro release. Maybe we'll even give em a day or two to practice.

            So, we'll ditch teams, but I'd like everyone to state the forum they want to represent and have it in the lists of games next to their names. We can have unlimited players representing each forum, doesn't matter. The point is that I want a connection between the game and the site to help non players get into the action and results.

            TechWins, sounds good, lets settle on King, or whatever aproximates King level in Civ 3. I like a map a tad over normal size, say 60 X 90? (instead of 50 X 80) Is everyone ok with that? I don't want to get into taking polls, rather focus on the opinions of those of us that get into it in these early stages and help as you guys are.

            Consider this everyone, should we randonize maps? I have a preference, but I guess everyone does...but maybe the majority will think alike? If not we'll randomize.

            I like continents w/ normal amounts of land, thoughts?

            One thing that really matters to me is NO 2X. Please support me in this...

            dainbramaged, you got it guy. No teams and we wait.

            TechWins, great idea on having double elimination. Also, I like your system, would you like to handle the schedule?

            Much as I'd love to play in this thing, maybe I should just deal with disputes, and administration. Less chance of an accusation of preference, squabbleing, that sort of thing. What do you guys think?

            Maybe the winner will give me a game in the end.

            Did I cover everything?
            Long time member @ Apolyton
            Civilization player since the dawn of time

            Comment

            • #36
              Here's a thought...

              We ramp up to the big competition, the world cup of Civ 3, the Superbowl of Apolyton, with a practice, single elimination small scale tourny after the US release. We might need the practice getting organized for the big show too.

              Thoughts?
              Long time member @ Apolyton
              Civilization player since the dawn of time

              Comment

              • #37
                Re: Here's a thought...

                Originally posted by Lancer
                We ramp up to the big competition, the world cup of Civ 3, the Superbowl of Apolyton, with a practice, single elimination small scale tourny after the US release. We might need the practice getting organized for the big show too.

                Thoughts?
                Cool. Count me in for both torurneys for the civ3-general forums.


                And Thats all, folks. I realy have to stop posting hte same thing over and over again, and i also come to apolyton in spurts, so if i stop coming for a bit... well, if I dont respond, please email me when youre going to have a tourney
                dainbramaged13@msn.com
                And God said "let there be light." And there was dark. And God said "Damn, I hate it when that happens." - Admiral

                Comment

                • #38
                  I concur Lancer - NO 2X

                  I myself never play with the 2 times production

                  As far as the map size goes, I really don't care - as long as all of the players DO NOT start on the same continent
                  ____________________________
                  "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
                  "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
                  ____________________________

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    No point to having two tourneys...

                    I guess the difference in release dates will only be a matter of weeks, 2 or 3 perhaps.

                    dainbramaged, I'll keep you in mind.

                    Wittlich, great, btw isn't it rare in multi to have only one continent? I think I've only seen one map turn out that way and it was a small one.
                    Long time member @ Apolyton
                    Civilization player since the dawn of time

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      TechWins, great idea on having double elimination. Also, I like your system, would you like to handle the schedule?
                      Yes, I would. We should actually start the signing up sometime in September and give it about a month for people to sign up.

                      A pre-tourney isn't a bad idea if the Euros don't get the game until sometime in 2002. If they are going to get the game in 2001 then we probably don't need to do a tourney. Maybe we could do some practice games for fun, though.

                      Yes, diffently there shouldn't be 2x.

                      Lancer I think you should join the tourney.

                      Where will all the games be saved at? How will the times of the games be determined, with all the time zone differences? Maybe we should only hold the games on weekends. Weekdays are too busy for me (wake up at 4am, do homework till 6am, go to school at 7am, come home at 3pm, do homework most of the night and play basketball for a few hours, then go to bed at 11pm). So I think holding the games on the weekends is the best idea to accomodate with time zones and people's schedules. If you fail to make it to your game then you will get an automatic forfeit. Unless you have one hell of a good reason why couldn't make it (i.e. went into a coma, house burned down, wife had a kid, my leg fell off unexpectingly).

                      The reason why I thought normal would be a good idea is because the games wouldn't take as long. I actually do like a map larger than normal, though. The continents with normal amounts of land is the best but some people may not agree so we might have to do a randominization. Then again who are they to speak out?

                      What should the winning conditions be? Obviously diplo won't ever happen. So there is no point in including that one. I think a cultural victory and military conquest are the only two we should include. The Space Race is too easy and I don't like the idea of a Domination victory in MP.

                      King sounds good to me.

                      Lancer, I agree with you on getting these things ironed out before the game gets released.
                      However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        TechWins, great idea on having double elimination. Also, I like your system, would you like to handle the schedule?
                        Yes, I would. We should actually start the signing up sometime in September and give it about a month for people to sign up.

                        A pre-tourney isn't a bad idea if the Euros don't get the game until sometime in 2002. If they are going to get the game in 2001 then we probably don't need to do a tourney. Maybe we could do some practice games for fun, though.

                        Yes, diffently there shouldn't be 2x.

                        Lancer I think you should join the tourney.

                        Where will all the games be saved at? How will the times of the games be determined, with all the time zone differences? Maybe we should only hold the games on weekends. Weekdays are too busy for me (wake up at 4am, do homework till 6am, go to school at 7am, come home at 3pm, do homework most of the night and play basketball for a few hours, then go to bed at 11pm). So I think holding the games on the weekends is the best idea to accomodate with time zones and people's schedules. If you fail to make it to your game then you will get an automatic forfeit. Unless you have one hell of a good reason why couldn't make it (i.e. went into a coma, house burned down, wife had a kid, my leg fell off unexpectingly).

                        The reason why I thought normal would be a good idea is because the games wouldn't take as long. I actually do like a map larger than normal, though. The continents with normal amounts of land is the best but some people may not agree so we might have to do a randominization. Then again who are they to speak out?

                        What should the winning conditions be? Obviously diplo won't ever happen. So there is no point in including that one. I think a cultural victory and military conquest are the only two we should include. The Space Race is too easy and I don't like the idea of a Domination victory in MP.

                        King sounds good to me.

                        Lancer, I agree with you on getting these things ironed out before the game gets released.

                        I just pushed reply when I realized that I had to say one more thing. I'm going to represent the Civ3-General forum. Even though, I am the motivator behind the opening of the Civ3-Civilizations forum, note: look at threads around the time of the Civ3.com release.
                        However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Thanks TechWins, for taking the schedule up.

                          Lets see how many people we get in the tourney before I decide if I'm in. If it's just a small thing I'll join. Otherwise it might be better to have someone w/ some distance to settle disputes.

                          Players should be responsible for saving their own games. A game might take a long time, so they can agree to pick it up and set a meeting.

                          Weekends sounds good.

                          I would suggest that instead of forfiet, the AI plays the civs of those that miss the agreed to meeting. That way they can pick it up again the next time around. (If anything survives)

                          If their leg falls off, , but arms remain attached they better show up...

                          As far as maps go, if you, Wittlich, and dainbramaged agree to normal land w/ continents, so be it. We're the ones here from the get go and involved in making this work. dainbramaged says he won't be around much, being busy, but perhaps instead of being a dictator of this, you, Wittlich, and I become equally responsible for all decisions. Democracy gets us better trade anyway. So, 2 out of three sound good for decisions? We'll give special attention to the ideas of dainbramaged, since he has shown early interest. We have to be non bias towards or friends, or people with whom we want to demolish. Save it for the battlefield. If we're a democracy I'm in and will play.

                          So, if you guys are agreed to sharing the duty, we need to vote on the map type, size, and what happens to folks that don't show. (eliminated or AI)

                          As I mentioned, I suggest 60 X 90, standard land, and continents. Should we set a default on all the other stuff to avoid problems among players? We don't know what 'all the other stuff' is yet, but we can set what we can for now.

                          I'd like to hear what you guys think of what I've written, and anything you want to add. I wish more people would get involved, but it's early yet.

                          Hey TechWins, I never got a forum opened, and I've done a few things around here, good job!

                          Shouldn't you be interested in the special abilities of civs though?
                          Long time member @ Apolyton
                          Civilization player since the dawn of time

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            As far as maps go, if you, Wittlich, and dainbramaged agree to normal land w/ continents, so be it. We're the ones here from the get go and involved in making this work. dainbramaged says he won't be around much, being busy, but perhaps instead of being a dictator of this, you, Wittlich, and I become equally responsible for all decisions. Democracy gets us better trade anyway. So, 2 out of three sound good for decisions? We'll give special attention to the ideas of dainbramaged, since he has shown early interest. We have to be non bias towards or friends, or people with whom we want to demolish. Save it for the battlefield. If we're a democracy I'm in and will play.
                            Sure Lancer, I can assist you in this.

                            You are right, we need to come up with a STANDARD set of rules/settings for the Championship. These settings will need to be the same for every game, including map size, continent/island size, amount of goods, difficulty level, barbarian level, and a standard setting for the terrain distribution (ie, wet/dry/warm/cold/so forth)

                            Concerning Player no-shows during the Championship, I agree that if these players do not show up on the given date/time of the game, their civilization should be played by the AI (for good or bad). I suggest that on the given date/time of a game, all players wait for a given amount of time (30 minutes) for the missing player to show up. If after this 30 minute waiting period, the player in question still does not show, then his/her civilization will be controlled by the AI for that time. Of course, a given game will most likely take more than one day or more than one "sitting" If the person shows for the next "round" in the game, then he/she would assume the control of their civilization.

                            A point that I feel that I need to make is this:

                            Everyone who signs up for the Championship is in it for the long haul . If a player gets bored, upset, looses interest, or has a pesonal/family emergency - My sympathy goes to you. HOWEVER, these problems/rotten luck/life-threatening situations CAN NOT and SHOULD NOT effect the execution of the Championship. If you experience a personal/family crisis, your fellow Apolyton members will feel your pain, but the Championship will CONTINUE.

                            I do apologize if I sound like I'm being carass and unfeeling, but I believe that we need this understanding in advance in order to have all players "on the same sheet of music" if you will.
                            Once we decide on all of the rules dictating the execution of the Championship, these rules will apply equally to everyone - no exceptions.

                            Concerning the "other stuff" (which is unknown right now), you are right Lancer, once we find out what these other options/settings are, we will then have to come up with the Championship Standard so to speak.

                            As a suggestion, even though the Host will save the game in process; I recommend that this same saved game file also be saved at an additional location - maybe here at Apolyton? I don't know... There are actually two reasons for this. First it allows the saved game file to have a "back-up" in case the Host's computer crashes or the file gets corrupted; and secondly it can be a form of checks and balances to ensure that no one messes with the settings/data of the saved game (possible cheats within the game itself).

                            Well, that's my two cents worth concerning the Championship. How does everyone else feel about it? Anyone else have any futher suggestions, comments, heartburn, or insight?
                            ____________________________
                            "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
                            "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
                            ____________________________

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              So, if you guys are agreed to sharing the duty, we need to vote on the map type, size, and what happens to folks that don't show. (eliminated or AI)
                              Oh yeah I agree to share the duty as long as I'm getting paid.

                              The map should be 4 billion years old, 60x90, normal temp, archipealago (spelled right?), and have these settings everytime but of course a slightly different map will appear. That is if these options are in the game.

                              The difficulty should be set at King.

                              No Civ Specific Abilities.

                              Victory conditions of Cultural Win and Military Win.

                              If there is a no show then Wittlich's ideas will apply.

                              Weekends will be playing dates.

                              The games will be saved on three computers instead of one or two. To give even more insurance than what two would. If only two computers are saving games then if one person cheats how will anybody know which one is cheating. I hope people will have enough integrity not to cheat in a fun tournament such as this.

                              A contract of some sort that has all the rules listed needs to be signed by every person affiliated with the tournament. It would be like signing the registration form here at Apolyton.

                              If a problem arises of any kind it will be brought up to Lancer, Wittlich, and I. Since Lancer will most likely not join the tournament he will have the ultimate say. Even though, Wittlich and I are apart of the executive group Lancer will be the head the head of the group.

                              Another thing is people should not join the tournament if they have no desire of winning. Meaning that they might try to blatantly take out another civ even if it destroys themselves.
                              However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                settling forum wars

                                alternatively, we can use a recipe patented by ajax and feyenoord hooligans. they agreed on time and place, met off the highway, brought their clubs and beated the s*** out of each other.
                                btw, i bet yin would singlehandedly beat both teams

                                Comment

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