J'accuse!

[techumseh]

Sorry to interupt the mounting frenzy of excitement over the approaching release of Civ3, but I've found something just a bit curious. I was checking out Firaxis' official site, and looked at the links to "fansites". http://civ3.com/fansites.cfm There were many (most really) that I hadn't seen before, so I had a look. And I found something odd.

Most of the sites were not done by anyone I've heard of in the civ community. Moreover, they were very professional looking. And they all had the same graphics, news, etc. that is available on the official site, but not much more.

Looking at them in more detail, I found: they all have legalistic copywrite notices, some claim to serve other games such as CTP, but these links don't usually lead anywhere, they are in English, French, German, and Spanish (there's also a site in Polish), some had other features, like forums, but they were usually under construction, or had a few obviously contrived posts. Almost all were established since June. Some suggest that they are the creation of a single individual, with a little testimonial to Civ2, but there's only an email or ICQ address to identify them. Not all sites listed fit the above description, however. Some are well known, legitimate FAN sites, such as Apolyton.

It looks to me that the civ community is a victim of a slick marketing campaign to promote Civ3, using fake "fan" sites as the bait. I will bet that most of these sites can be traced back to Firaxis, Hasbro or their marketing firm. And no doubt once the initial marketing campaign is over and sales targets reached, these sites will quietly disappear.

I have no problem with Firaxis or any game company using internet sites to promote their products. I do object when they create phoney "fan" sites designed to create the impression that there is a strong network of unofficial fan sites supporting their game. I think that's an insult to the real civ community!

[Trifna]

...

Boy, this isn't a joke... I guess it should be looked at, but I permit myself to have some doubts about such a bad way of promotion.

[General Ludd]

How does having a bunch of unused fan sites help a game sell?

[Marquis de Sodaq]

People notice the numerous "fan" sites, and without following the links, assume everybody and his uncle is excited about the new game. The assumption is that it must be good for so much interest to exist. "Gotta get me a copy of that" is the next thought on the path of marketing. You'd be surprized how savvy advertising is...

[General Ludd]

This is the internet, there are a million websites for every little thing that has ever existed. I don't see how having a bunch of unused websites will help sell a game, why would going to a bunch of barren websites with no content make someone want to buy a game?

[Comrade Tribune]

Interesting. Could mean they are so disappointed with the result of their self-copying that they are resorting to desperate measures. Would be funny, if it weren´t sad.

[Comrade Tribune]

Osweld, I think what Marquis means is Firaxis is hoping for the bandwagon effect. Making people believe that others are very excited about the game. "Me, too" is, after all, an important motivator.

[donarumo]

Oh shut-up!

I am so sick of people taking shots at Firaxis and a game that has not been released yet! I mean, if you want to give your opinion about features or the quality of a game, that is great. But don't start spouting your unproven and sophomoric theories about what you think a company that you have no connection with is doing.

I mean, if you can't believe that any Civilization game could have enough fans (some with web talent and some without) to create dozens of web pages, then you do not deserve to even buy the game. Get the hell out of here and let people with a brain discuss important facts about the game.

[M. le Comte]

Re: Oh shut-up!

Originally posted by donarumo
I am so sick of people taking shots at Firaxis and a game that has not been released yet! I mean, if you want to give your opinion about features or the quality of a game, that is great. But don't start spouting your unproven and sophomoric theories about what you think a company that you have no connection with is doing.

I mean, if you can't believe that any Civilization game could have enough fans (some with web talent and some without) to create dozens of web pages, then you do not deserve to even buy the game. Get the hell out of here and let people with a brain discuss important facts about the game.

Well well well

I am not an angry person, but there are a few things that have ever gone on my nose.

- People who don't respect freedom of speech.

Originally posted by donarumo
But don't start spouting your unproven and sophomoric theories...

- People who don't respect freedom of thinking.

Originally posted by donarumo
if you can't believe that any Civilization game could have enough fans (...) to create dozens of web pages, then you do not deserve to even buy the game.

And yes, I know that, in a way, I either don't respect freedom of thinking.

- People who believe that agreeing with them is the same thing as being intelligent.

Originally posted by donarumo
Get the hell out of here and let people with a brain discuss important facts about the game.

Have you noticed ? You have the right to discuss and praise the features of the game (which you can't know but only imagine with the few elements that are given), but you don't have the right to criticize Firaxis (because you can't know it).

I don't know if Techumseh goes in the right way, but I'm sure of one thing, Donarumo, you're wrong !

[splangy]

Re: Oh shut-up!

Originally posted by donarumo
I am so sick of people taking shots at Firaxis and a game that has not been released yet! I mean, if you want to give your opinion about features or the quality of a game, that is great. But don't start spouting your unproven and sophomoric theories about what you think a company that you have no connection with is doing.

I mean, if you can't believe that any Civilization game could have enough fans (some with web talent and some without) to create dozens of web pages, then you do not deserve to even buy the game. Get the hell out of here and let people with a brain discuss important facts about the game.

CALM DOWN!!

howwever i am a little tired of people taking unbased potshots at firaxis, and who cares if they are using deceit as marketing, its not like the rest of the commercial world dosn't.

also, coinsidering only recently have we began to get information, maybe those cites are real new and will be useful soon, who knows.

[static]

Re: J'accuse!

Originally posted by techumseh
Sorry to interupt the mounting frenzy of excitement over the approaching release of Civ3, but I've found something just a bit curious. I was checking out Firaxis' official site, and looked at the links to "fansites". http://civ3.com/fansites.cfm There were many (most really) that I hadn't seen before, so I had a look. And I found something odd.

Most of the sites were not done by anyone I've heard of in the civ community. Moreover, they were very professional looking. And they all had the same graphics, news, etc. that is available on the official site, but not much more.

Looking at them in more detail, I found: they all have legalistic copywrite notices, some claim to serve other games such as CTP, but these links don't usually lead anywhere, they are in English, French, German, and Spanish (there's also a site in Polish), some had other features, like forums, but they were usually under construction, or had a few obviously contrived posts. Almost all were established since June. Some suggest that they are the creation of a single individual, with a little testimonial to Civ2, but there's only an email or ICQ address to identify them. Not all sites listed fit the above description, however. Some are well known, legitimate FAN sites, such as Apolyton.

It looks to me that the civ community is a victim of a slick marketing campaign to promote Civ3, using fake "fan" sites as the bait. I will bet that most of these sites can be traced back to Firaxis, Hasbro or their marketing firm. And no doubt once the initial marketing campaign is over and sales targets reached, these sites will quietly disappear.

I have no problem with Firaxis or any game company using internet sites to promote their products. I do object when they create phoney "fan" sites designed to create the impression that there is a strong network of unofficial fan sites supporting their game. I think that's an insult to the real civ community!

I think those sites were created by different people. I used to run an ill-fated gaming search engine, and you would be amazed how many people just copy content from other sources for their site. I'm not surprised many of them are under construction considering the fact Civ 3 hasn't coming out yet, and there is A LOT we don't know about the game. You can kind of tell that many of these sites were probably the webmaster's first website by the poor designs. Then again, I could be wrong?

[Kropotkin]

How very interesting is there any jewish officers involved in the conspiracy too?

[kittenOFchaos]

busy little firaxis...

...if only we could find the link between Firaxis and the Jewish officers we could have some justification!...

Stephen Jay Gould was wrong about you...you are a crackpot Kropotkin...

Wasn't one of the sites polish? well they HAD to do it for them, isn't it obvious (enough trolling kitten, goats coming in at 12 o'clock). :banned:

[donarumo]

Re: Re: Oh shut-up!

Originally posted by M. le Comte


I don't know if Techumseh goes in the right way, but I'm sure of one thing, Donarumo, you're wrong !

Yes, I agree with you M., it does sound like I am attacking a freedom of speech here. I'm not, I am attacking the speech itself not the right to say it.

Anybody can say whatever they want here (within moral bounds) and that is a very good thing. I guess this post is sort of like the straw on the camel's back for me. I am just very tired of people railing on a game because it doesn't have the features they exactly want.

It happens in almost every forum for a game about to come out, no matter how great that game turns out to be. I know, I know, this post atually does not do that but it just heated my fustration level. I may be showing my age here but I remember a time when we bought a game and we were happy for what it was not angry for what it was not.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Re: J'accuse!

Originally posted by techumseh
Sorry to interupt the mounting frenzy of excitement over the approaching release of Civ3, but I've found something just a bit curious. I was checking out Firaxis' official site, and looked at the links to "fansites". http://civ3.com/fansites.cfm There were many (most really) that I hadn't seen before, so I had a look. And I found something odd.

Most of the sites were not done by anyone I've heard of in the civ community. Moreover, they were very professional looking. And they all had the same graphics, news, etc. that is available on the official site, but not much more.

Looking at them in more detail, I found: they all have legalistic copywrite notices, some claim to serve other games such as CTP, but these links don't usually lead anywhere, they are in English, French, German, and Spanish (there's also a site in Polish), some had other features, like forums, but they were usually under construction, or had a few obviously contrived posts. Almost all were established since June. Some suggest that they are the creation of a single individual, with a little testimonial to Civ2, but there's only an email or ICQ address to identify them. Not all sites listed fit the above description, however. Some are well known, legitimate FAN sites, such as Apolyton.

It looks to me that the civ community is a victim of a slick marketing campaign to promote Civ3, using fake "fan" sites as the bait. I will bet that most of these sites can be traced back to Firaxis, Hasbro or their marketing firm. And no doubt once the initial marketing campaign is over and sales targets reached, these sites will quietly disappear.

I have no problem with Firaxis or any game company using internet sites to promote their products. I do object when they create phoney "fan" sites designed to create the impression that there is a strong network of unofficial fan sites supporting their game. I think that's an insult to the real civ community!

NONE of the sites on that list were created by anyone at Firaxis, they are on that list because the webmasters of those sites e-mailed me and asked to be added to our list. Most of them do not have a great deal of content yet, but then the majority of them don't have a thriving forum community like this site (some don't even have forums at all), and as a result they are limited to posting the same news and screenshots that everyone else has.

Having run a fansite before, I know how much work it takes just to get a site off the ground, and I respect those who put in the work to do so. Not everyone can run a site as comprehensive as Apolyton, but that doesn't mean the "smaller" sites are any less worthy of being on the community list.

That said, in the coming weeks, I will start contacting sites that have not updated their content and ask them to do so, or be removed from the list. No one wants to click through to sites that haven't been updated in months.

As for similar copyright notices, these are standard procedure for us; we generally ask that sites who use materials from our games or sites post a notice stating that the images, sounds, or other assets displayed are copyrighted by Firaxis and are used by permission.

As a footnote on all of this, I don't know who would have the time to coordinate such an elaborate hoax anyway. Everyone here is fully loaded with work, and my free time is about to be claimed by Arcanum starting tonight (just as soon as I finish laying down my nightly crop circles)

Dan