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Praise to Korn469 & to Apolyton!

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  • #1

    Praise to Korn469 & to Apolyton!

    I don't know if this has been mentioned, but...

    Anyone take a look at the SHORT LIST and compare it to the changes in CIV3?



    I'm very impressed. I recall Korn's excellent and tireless work at the time the SHORT LIST was prepared, and I find it remarkable how much appears to have been incorporated into CIV3.

    I think the brutal chopping of the list down was extremely difficult and at times divisive, but ultimately led to a very effective method of communicating to Firaxis.

    So while I doling out the praise-
    Praise to Firaxis, for listening!

    Best MMORPG on the net: www.cyberdunk.com?ref=310845

    An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. -Gandhi
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  • #2
    While you're busy giving credit where's credit due...don't you forget someone very important? Like the one who did the main list in the first place?
    Skeptics should forego any thought of convincing the unconvinced that we hold the torch of truth illuminating the darkness. A more modest, realistic, and achievable goal is to encourage the idea that one may be mistaken. Doubt is humbling and constructive; it leads to rational thought in weighing alternatives and fully reexamining options, and it opens unlimited vistas.

    Elie A. Shneour Skeptical Inquirer

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    • #3
      Originally posted by CapTVK
      While you're busy giving credit where's credit due...don't you forget someone very important? Like the one who did the main list in the first place?
      yes.

      THANK YOU ANONOMYOUS MAN.
      "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
      - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

      Comment

      • #4
        Scandalous lack of appreciation

        And how about me? I supported Horsie in his calls to abolish mountain cities.

        Horsie himself should, of course, also get some praise.
        DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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        • #5
          The Mad Viking and CapTVK

          no one person is directly responsible for any of the lists to come out of apolyton...yin did assemble the first buglist for SMAC back at the old owo forums and that list led to the first and second revisions of the The List here, but without the community yin wouldn't have had much to send firaxis

          without Raingoon's colaboration i wouldn't have even bothered to start on the EC3 list, and to remain impartial i didn't submit any ideas of my own for consideration in the EC3 list (though i did debate many of the topics, as did many others)

          also without MarkG and DanQ neither The List nor the EC3 list would have seen the light of day

          however i have noticed many game features listed EC3 list cropping up in civ3, and while it may all be coincidence i really hope that the fans did help shape civ3 at least to some extent

          when civ3 finally comes out i plan on doing an EC3 retrospective for the article section comparing how close the game came to fulfilling the EC3 list...then i also plan on organizing a new EC3-X list for the civ3 expansion...locutus has already organized a fine list of civilizations to be in the Civ3 Expansion...however in addition to more civs i think that C3X will probably be like SMACX and introduce new techs, units, buildings, and other items, and that is what the EC3-X list will be for, but i don't think we can really ask for any other new features (besides what we have already asked for) in civ3 till we have actually played the game...so i don't think there should be any more feature lists until the game actually comes out

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Scandalous lack of appreciation

            Originally posted by Colon
            And how about me? I supported Horsie in his calls to abolish mountain cities.

            Horsie himself should, of course, also get some praise.

            no, i dont give krazy any recognition for that I WANT MOUNTAIN CITYS! WTF is that???? There are citys on mountains!

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            • #7
              Don't blame me; Horsie=Alexander's Horse, KH=KrazyHorse
              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
              Stadtluft Macht Frei
              Killing it is the new killing it
              Ultima Ratio Regum

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              • #8
                No cities on mountains? That has to be one of the most ridiculous thing I have heard.
                (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                • #9
                  Re: Praise to Korn469 & to Apolyton!

                  Originally posted by The Mad Viking
                  take a look at the SHORT LIST
                  where?
                  "Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!" -- Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels
                  "If you expect a kick in the balls and get a slap in the face, that's a victory." -- Irish proverb

                  Proud member of the Pink Knights of the Roundtable!

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                  • #10
                    where?
                    Go to http://www.apolyton.com/civ3/ and look at downloads. There you will see the option to download the lists.
                    However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Actually, I don't think a 400(or something) pages long document are "short" , but the list IS good!!! The first thing I did when I began to come to Apolyton regulary, was to download the list v2, and, believe it or not, I read about half of it!!! '

                      I know, I'm crazy... but it was so interesting!
                      Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
                      I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
                      Also active on WePlayCiv.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        As Korn469 mentioned AFAIK the short list is in fact the Essential Civ3 List of Fixes and New Ideas, in short EC3.

                        You can't find it in download area, but any search into the Forum Area "Civ3 - The list of ideas for Firaxis" will let you find the whole history about it.

                        My best help for a shortcut is to read this Final Voting Result thread, browse it until you find all the link to the proposed enhancement.

                        BTW, so far I don't have the feeling Firaxis really used it (of course we should wait until the release of the game will turn every card Firaxis has still covered...).

                        Let's try a first overview.

                        List of FIXES (more related to a "conservative sequel") sorted in order of votes received:

                        1. Trade - 105 MOSTLY ACCEPTED
                        2. Diplomacy - 86 ACCEPTED
                        3. Make It Harder For Civs To Last - 73 NOT CONFIRMED
                        4. Comprehensive Scenario Editor - 72 MOSTLY ACCEPTED
                        5. Improved Road & Rail Rules - 72 UNKNOW

                        Others Receiving Votes:

                        6. Bring Back News Reports - 52 UNKNOW
                        7. No more Instant City Conversions - 52 ACCEPTED
                        8. Amazing City Veiw - 42 MOSTLY ACCEPTED
                        9. Faster Smoother Graphics/Interface - 35 TO BE CHECKED
                        10. Multiplayer Startup Option - 26 UNKNOW

                        List of NEW IDEAS (more related to a "radical change") sorted in order of votes received:

                        1. Rise and fall of Empires - 75 REJECTED
                        2. Domestic Politics - 63 REJECTED
                        3. New Modes of Victory - 52 NOT NEAR AS PROPOSED
                        4. Energy - 48 REJECTED
                        5. Stacking - 46 NOT AS PROPOSED
                        5. Religion - 46 REJECTED

                        Others Receiving Votes:

                        7. Open Source AI - 44 UNKNOW
                        8. Expanding City Radius - 43 REJECTED (only borders change)
                        9. Detailed Replay - 41 UNKNOW
                        10. Hex Based Map - 40 REJECTED
                        11. Simultaneous Turns of Play - 36 REJECTED
                        11. Different Levels of Cities - 36 REJECTED
                        13. Recruitment System - 29 REJECTED
                        14. Automatic Patrolling - 23 UNKNOW
                        15. Tourism - 20 UNKNOW

                        So far, and considering that I tried to count as ACCEPTED also proposed features that seems a bit different from the Civ3 announced, I only note a success of proposed "Fix", while nothing seems to have been really accepted from the "New idea" bunch.

                        Once again, I'll wait the korn469 EC3 retrospective before to write a final comment on this argument.

                        Disclaimer: please double check by your own, because I quickly browse the EC3 proposal, while sometimes I only used my old memories.
                        "We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
                         - Admiral Naismith

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                        • #13
                          Sine this is a 'conservative sequel' it can be cosidered that Firaxis listened a lot.

                          What they should do now is a CIV III Mod that would be a whole new game on CIV III game engine, and that would incorporate new ideas. I would like to see the unit workshop from SMAC as well and a science system geard towards the development of tools, and skills that enable you to build components. Assembly would be let to the player.
                          Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                          GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
                            6. Bring Back News Reports - 52 UNKNOW
                            Known. I remember Dan saying in this form that the newspaper would be coming back.


                            List of NEW IDEAS (more related to a "radical change") sorted in order of votes received:

                            1. Rise and fall of Empires - 75 REJECTED
                            Of course one could argue that Golden Ages are in a way the way Firaxis has made Rise and Fall of empires work. And in my opinion I think it is a very good way.


                            4. Energy - 48 REJECTED
                            Don't remember this one.


                            5. Stacking - 46 NOT AS PROPOSED
                            But accepted partially.


                            Others Receiving Votes:

                            7. Open Source AI - 44 UNKNOW
                            Never really expected.

                            9. Detailed Replay - 41 UNKNOW
                            Replay is in. I guess it is unknown just how detailed it is.


                            11. Simultaneous Turns of Play - 36 REJECTED
                            Jeff said that it is in, in this thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...ltaneous+Turns


                            So it appears that Firaxis has at least incorporated some of the ideas that they thought would make the game more fun. And overall, it appears that they did at least read the list.
                            About 24,000 people die every day from hunger or hunger-related causes. With a simple click daily at the Hunger Site you can provide food for those who need it.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                              Don't blame me; Horsie=Alexander's Horse, KH=KrazyHorse
                              sorry..... damn now im confused

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