c181# CHARACTERS / GRAPHICS

[Bill3000]

Sure, graphics might be good, but it is not that important, because that game might be a bomb. For instance, Final Fantasy 8 had good graphics, but it had horrible gameplay. Same with a title that we are all familar with: Call to Power. If you go a game purely by its graphics, then you shouldn't be playing it at all.

[Bill3000]

One more thing

Also, if Civ 3 has good graphics, it will only be harder for scenario makers to edit. Look at CTP and SMAC, for instance.

[Immortal Wombat]

Scrooge, I made a wonder-unit mod for CtP2, featuring 14 units I think that were created when a cheap wonder was built. They acted as generals, making all units under them veterans.

[JosefGiven]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Scrooge, I made a wonder-unit mod for CtP2, featuring 14 units I think that were created when a cheap wonder was built. They acted as generals, making all units under them veterans.

Respect, Wombat. How hard is it to create animated sprites for a mod, just out of interest?

[Starlite]

I don't like the idea of leaders (or heroes in certain early fantasy strategy games). I think it's because they force the player to form too strong an attachment to them, not being so willing to risk them and making the defence of borders far too dependent on the location of these leaders.

I also suspect that, apart from the constant (and, to me, somewhat irritating) cry of "historical accuracy" (inappropriate in this sort of game, IMO), the reason so many people seem so keen on leaders is a symptom of the cult of celebrity so frequently subscribed to in our society. It amazes me no end how many people honestly believe movie stars are better than them, how hard they find it to relate upon meeting a famous personage. This was most obvious with the insane dedication of so many fans to the Big Brother phenomenon (as I observed in its Australian incarnation).

Of course, I may be reading too much into it. (I should have stuck with saying I don't like leaders.)

I like the anonymity of my units in Civ; personalities, I ascribe to my cities, not my units, and I think that's part of the attraction.

I also like being in complete control. Having my authority questioned by leaders, I find less desirable than even the frightening idea of a city revolting.

Anyway, that's my 2c.

Paulius

[FrostyBoy]

Good graphics = Bad AI

please explain this nonsense to me will ya?


btw, if you believe this, your opinion to good graphics is most probably very different to an artists opinion.

[RGE]

Well, it's like this, see. A game developer has a budget, and can't hire an infinite amount of competent programmers and artists. Thus, the developer must make a decision as to how many of each to employ, and thereby puts a certain priority on either gameplay and graphics. So more programmers indicate a better code (including AI), while more artists indicate better graphics. So it's not so much that "Good graphics = Bad AI" as it is "Better graphics = worse AI". The goal is usually to get "Good graphics + Good AI", much like your civilization usually tries to get a "Good military + Good infrastructure". Still, your infrastructure will always be a little bit better if you could get away with no military

[FrostyBoy]

I disagree

An artists ability is not judged by how much money he gets, same goes for a programmer, they ALL want to do the best they can.

And I'm sure Sid has an unlimited amount of money and plenty of time.

When it comes to companies as big as Firaxis, you don't need to worry about that better graphics/worse AI thing, thats only for small companies

[Rhysie]

Originally posted by Sn00py
I disagree

An artists ability is not judged by how much money he gets, same goes for a programmer, they ALL want to do the best they can.

This is quite simply wrong. First of all, the better the artist, the more pay he can demand. You can get a much better artist for twenty quid an hour than for five quid an hour. Secondly, the more time the artist has to spend on a project, the better he can do that project, refining any problems and re-doing things until he has something he is more pleased with - And the more time an artist spends on a project, the more hours pay you have to give them.

Therefore, more money = better art.

[Mech Assassin]

I personally like the leader idea. The leaders are a good way to add some more complexity to the game without making it too difficult. Also, border defense isn't so hard, because the leaders aren't required to defend. They just upgrade the chances of success. With good road system behind your lines, you can quickly move the armies to where they're needed, while your standard border forces hold up the enemy. Also, I think, realism to a certain point fits to game. The thing is, that it must be used properly. It's all, how they do it, not what they do. Too many seem to think, that "if 4X TBS is realistic, it's bad". It's all on how the realism is implemented. If it's done correctly, it will make the game far better. And, with rule-customization chances, like in Civ II, you can always toggle the rules on or off, depending on your likings.

About the artist thing, they need to concentrate on something. They have limited budget (the payers decide) and limited timeframe. That's what drives them and forces them to concentrate. If they hire many good artists to get good graphics in time, they can't hire enough good programmers to get good AI in time. Now, most go for the graphics, because that brings the masses to buy the game. I think, they should go more on AI.

[Shteven]

i like the idea of leaders, i think they add a interesting twist to the game. however i hope they don't interfere with the gameplay too much. (which i don't think they would do).

[Shteven]

I think that graphics has to be of a certain quality not to interfere with the gameplay or the game becomes unfun. for instance i like a tank to look like a tank and not be some pattern of pixels in which you have to stare at to decifer what it looks like. I like good graphics, however i don't buy games just because of it. i have a very limited money supply so i choose my games carefully.

btw - when i first got civ like 10 years or something ago when i was in elementry school i thought the settler in civ1 looked like a car, intill much latter when i realized it was actaully a wagon. however i loved civ1 and at the time it seemed like good graphics to me- just showing that graphics isn't everything for me (sorry for the random tangent )