Make No Mistake: Graphics Are Important!

[Jason Beaudoin]

...oh... and btw, comparying a computer game to a book is like comparing oranges to apples. It is rediculous to try and compare the two.

From what I know of books, they cannot provide sound or any video, so how can you compare the two? You should have tried television... but fortunately, television producers rarely screw up like game designers.

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by yin26
As a final note, consider: "Entertain me. It is someone else's responsibility to entertain me."

Umm, by your own logic, YOU should be writing the books instead of sitting idly by and letting others do it for you? What? Do you lack the imagination? Are you lazy? No. You want to be entertained while relaxing . . . True, one's own imagination can often be far more impressive than anything put on a screen (movie OR computer), but in outstanding cases, the visual medium can leave impressions just as profound and entertaining.

Yin, you may be a pessimist, but you sure do have a sharp mind. If everyone on here would present logical, well thought out arguments on Apolyton like you do, this would be a MUCH better forum because of it.

As this regards Civ 3: I would suggest the graphics haters to send me their moves by e-mail ("I build a granary in Lincoln"). I will then enter any legal commands in an on-going game just for them and report back the current game status ("Your granary cost 15 gold and will be built in 12 turns"). On their side, they can simply imagine it all in their heads or arrange rocks in the garden for future reference to unit placement etc.

Yes, that would be a far more entertaining Civ 3 experience!

My sentiments exactly! All I can do is laugh!

[Urban Ranger]

On the contrary, anybody who thinks that a computer must have bleeding edge graphics has fallen prey to marketing hype.

The comparison to books, while not totally exact, still has a strong point: a person needs no sound or graphics to be captivated, or at least entertained.

Graphics is just a medium, a way to convey information. How odd it iis then that the medium is regarded more important than the info it conveys.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by yin26
As this regards Civ 3: I would suggest the graphics haters to send me their moves by e-mail ("I build a granary in Lincoln"). I will then enter any legal commands in an on-going game just for them and report back the current game status ("Your granary cost 15 gold and will be built in 12 turns"). On their side, they can simply imagine it all in their heads or arrange rocks in the garden for future reference to unit placement etc.

That doesn't work, not because of the lack of graphics, but because of the lack of immersion (into the game). IIRC you used to play Trade Wars 2002, no?

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
The comparison to books, while not totally exact, still has a strong point: a person needs no sound or graphics to be captivated, or at least entertained.

Graphics is just a medium, a way to convey information. How odd it iis then that the medium is regarded more important than the info it conveys.

Well, if you let me pass a light heart comment, I love my wife for her sense of humor, tendress, lot of good points, still she's not a top-model from any, hmmm "graphic" point of view (surely enough replayability, after 9 years of wedding, once you understand her AI tactics ).

Anyone thinks that adding her a "graphically state of the art" top model "chassis" could give her any bad?

Well, OTHO probably she'd chose another husband, for sure, but luckily games can't chose customers, so that doesn't apply to Civ III debate

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
On the contrary, anybody who thinks that a computer must have bleeding edge graphics has fallen prey to marketing hype . . .

Graphics is just a medium, a way to convey information. How odd it iis then that the medium is regarded more important than the info it conveys.

Oh, Urban Ranger, you make the same tired old comments other people do: People who want a nice looking game want ONLY that and not good gameplay.

Do you really believe that?

Do you think we're asking for graphics akin to the latest RPG or first-person shooter? NO! But certainly I believe it is reasonable to expect well coordinated, colorful, elegant graphics like in AoE II: Age of Kings . . . or even AoE. Now that's what I call mixing good gameplay (shall we say the ruler by which all other RTS games are measured) with outstanding graphics. And this on a game made several YEARS ago.

Wake up. It's 2001 for crying out loud!

You and your cronies make me laugh.

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith


Well, if you let me pass a light heart comment, I love my wife for her sense of humor, tendress, lot of good points, still she's not a top-model from any, hmmm "graphic" point of view (surely enough replayability, after 9 years of wedding, once you understand her AI tactics ).

Anyone thinks that adding her a "graphically state of the art" top model "chassis" could give her any bad?

Well, OTHO probably she'd chose another husband, for sure, but luckily games can't chose customers, so that doesn't apply to Civ III debate

Now, that's some funny stuff!

[DATarbell]

Apology and Explanation

First, let me apologize if I have offended anyone in this forum. That was not my intent.

Jason made, what I felt, were some overreaching statements and I reacted with a core dump of sorts.

My comparison of books and computer games was based on Jason's definition of the entertainment industry and the crucial role that graphics and sound play in effecting aesthetic appeal. I chose the extreme example: books entertain, therefore they can be considered part of the entertainment industry, yet graphics and sound make no contribution whatsoever to their entertainment value. Therefore, graphics and sound are not required to affect entertainment.

Can they contribute? No question. I never meant to imply that they couldn't or shouldn't.

I do believe that the emphasis on cutting-edge graphics in computer games has led to a rash of development projects throughout the industry where the developers became so enamored with the technology that they forgot (or didn't know how) to make it fun!

And I do believe that the current generation is guilty of the attitude that life should be entertaining, and that anything that does not entertain is to be dismissed.

Yin, I was not advocating an "all-or-nothing" approach. Like you, I read a great many books and still enjoy sitting down to a graphically pleasing movie, computer game, or whatever. I don't dismiss the need or value for entertainment, as much as I am concerned about a seeming obsession with it--by some in our society, not all--as the core value of life. (And by the way Yin, I am a writer, though not of books.)

Bottom line: I feel that too much negative attention has been given to the graphics with too little information. Perhaps the screen shots are truly representative of the product that will ship (hopefully soon). And perhaps Firaxis has addressed some of these concerns and we just haven't seen their most recent works.

I can hardly wait to see for myself.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'd rather have a game with EXCELLENT graphics AND excellent AI.

Civ3, to be released in 2006 .

The fact is that Firaxis DOESN'T have all the time in the world. They must release a game by (at the very latest) Spring 2002. If not, Infogrames would, undoubtably, be pissed. Firaxis doesn't have the luxury of publishing its own games, so there is a time schedule. You must make a decision...

And, for the record, I absolutely love the graphics (especially the animated units).

[shade]

And if one has a deadline:banned: updating graphics is a lot easier than updating an AI.

Shade

[yin26]

DATarbell: Sorry if I misread your tone. I appreciate your clarification as I thought you were going somewhere else. Yes, I agree completely that the number of eye-candy tech-intensive games has led to some awful gaming. Nicely said.

Colonel: You realize, of course, that saying such nice things to me could put you in the line of Apolyton fire. Thanks for risking it!

[Todd Hawks]

I would rather have the game in black and white color than with a bad AI.

Just my 2 cents.