Plate Tectonics: Natrual Wonders Of The World

[Alex 14]

It's quite likely that over 6000 years terrain should change, hills should turn into mountins ect. What about natrual wonders of the world? I have already heard that The Great Wall & Great Canal will be placed as objects on the map, but what about stuff like Victoria Falls? there should be 15 Natrual wonders, for every game you play, 5-6 of them could be placed into the terain and treated accordingly. Any thoughts?

[H Tower]

the difficulty in

i think firaxis is going to have a hard enough time having the random map generator come up with a decent map without having to worry about placing natural wonders like victoria falls. lets face it, the random maps in civ2 were terrible.

alex: shouldn't it be mountains turning into hills? and where did you hear abou the canal and the great wall being placed on the map?

[Alex 14]

Well, maybee in Civ 4... . No hills into mountains is possible.

Civ Fanatics claims there will be a great wall that will apear on the map.

[fittstim]

6000 years!?!?!?!

Whoa!! Slow down a bit. Let me assure you that 6000 years is in no way enough time to turn mountains into hills.

The Catskill Mts are a good example. Are these "mountains" or "hills"? The Taconic Orogeny which resulted in the Catskills happened about 500 million years ago during the Ordovician Period (when fish were the dominant life form on Earth). They've been eroding ever since but they're still fairly impressive.

Only the movement of glacier sheets down from the poles can have such an effect on mountains in a relatively short timespan. But I won't get into that discussion.

The rivers on the map are usually placed without respect to reality. Water flows downhill through gravitational forces and thus rivers are made. Accordingly, the source of rivers is by default high ground (hills and mountains). How often can you find rivers starting in the middle of a plain on a Civ map? Way too often.

The ultimate hindrance in creating a good map is the fact that the earth is spherical and can't be accurately represented on a flat screen. Ask Mercator, his name says it all.

[Grumbold]

We have chatted about this before, with inconclusive results. On big maps I think it would be a nice touch if there were tiles of local natural interest, particularly if the first nation to discover them got to give them a name. Conquest of the New World did this quite nicely. Ultimately it is crowd pleasing eye-candy which would only work if the game was fun and the random map generator could cope with placing them sensibly. I'd like to see them in the game, being a big fan of the palace, town view and other such ephemera that add atmosphere to the strategy.

The only terrain changes I can think of that would make a big difference to Civ gameplay are those centered around natural disasters. A volcano could suddenly erupt. An earthquake could make southern California disappear into the sea. Other than that, the changes are largely man wrought, like the deforestation of large parts of the globe. Civ would need a complicated new bio model to start causing local erosion from excessive deforestation, acid rain or overgrazing by goats. Most natural changes, like whether a range of mountains is two feet lower after a thousand years of the game, really don't matter. Even rivers changing their course are unlikely to actually move it so far it changes by a whole tile.

[Fidel]

Given what they did in SMAC (Geothermal Shallows, Monsoon Jungle, etc kinda features) there is no reason not to do kinda same thing in Civ 3. Its really a nice touch.

[Provost Harrison]

Large geological changes such as plate tectonics do not take place over a period like that of the existence of civilisation, they take far longer. It may be fair to encorporate glacial changes, although over this period of time they would be slight.

Nah, a pointless idea...

[Recurve]

Yes, an absolutely brilliant idea with almost infinite possibilities.

Of course, Ayer's Rock (named "Recurve Rock" after its discoverer) would generate serious dosh for the neighbouring city on the advent of mass tourism. I would be extremely pleased if a settler bumped into it.

Coastal erosion could be a feature, but depending on the geography you should be able to construct defences (expensive, but better than losing a city). The changing sea levels in SMAC pissed me of no end (so did the disappearing roads). I could live with natural disasters if they were extremely rare (in Britain, the largest earthquakes we encounter wouldn't knock a paper cup off a table).

Storms and cyclones at sea would be a nice feature, reducing MPs (even damaging vessels). A "Weather Satellite" improvement could help you detect trouble.

[fittstim]

I agree about the "random events" and that they could add to the game but they would have to be soundly designed. I don't expect a "mountain" to explode with lava if it's located in Scandanavia (for example). The random map generator would have to be seriously overhauled to take into account plate tectonics (the driving force behind both earthquakes and volcanos, as well as geothermal springs and myriad other effects).

Otherwise, scenarios can deal with these occurances rather effectively.

[death_head]

I don't think there should be erosion and stuff, because it moves way too slow...however, I think that earthquakes should have a less predictable effect on the terrain...

[JellyDonut]

Incorporating a plate tectonics model before they start beta testing, or else before release? I sincerely doubt it.

Neat idea though

[Alex 14]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Large geological changes such as plate tectonics do not take place over a period like that of the existence of civilisation, they take far longer. It may be fair to encorporate glacial changes, although over this period of time they would be slight.

Nah, a pointless idea...

It's possible for terrain to change over 6000 years, i mean only a few tiles should change in an entire game, it would make it more fun.

[TechWins]

canal and the great wall being placed on the map?

I also saw it in a preview back in April. I as well do believe that they will be placed on the map, even though (I don't think) Firaxis has stated that it's official. I would still expect this feature to be in Civ3.

[fittstim]

Only one canal???

I can think of two "great canals" - Suez and Panama - and hundreds of "near great canals". Why should this be a Wonder???

Is a canal going to be something that an engineer can create??? That, I think, would be a great idea. Sort of like allowing them to produce river hexes (but I guess this would be abused in order to rack in the trades).

And triremes (maybe caravels) should be able to move along river squares, as long as they are not located in a mountain or hill square. Wouldn't this be a relatively easy change?

Remember that the Vikings held the city of Paris (about 180 km from the ocean) ransom by rowing/sailing up the Seine.

[Adagio]

I like the idea about natural wonders like Victoria Falls. Such wonders could give extra income, and make you get a higher regard from the other nations

But the idea about making the terrain change over 6000 years is not a good idea I think.