canals, and other new tiles/terraforming

[Provost Harrison]

Canals, if connected to the sea directly or indirectly, should give the advantage to the city of a naval centre, eg, harbour, offshore platform, port facility, or it's civ3 equivalents...this would also allow access to overseas colonies which could prove to be useful, the manufacture of naval units and the harvesting of greater resources from ocean squares. I don't think they should pose any advantage [i]per se[i/] but all squares connected via canal (and that includes via the sea and all canals flowing into the sea by canal) should receive a trade bonus, at least for a period of time.

[Grumbold]

We seem to be oscillating between discussing massive projects like the Suez Canal (definitely a wonder-ful project) and the mediaeval / renaissance canals which were used for goods transportation but would not be able to cope with even small seagoing ships. I think the latter should be a standard terrain improvement and agree they should provide trade or production benefits which fade away after railroads and automobiles become prevalent.

[Fidel]

Re: canals, and other new tiles/terraforming

Originally posted by ancient
I think you should be able to build canals in civ3

exercise in futility

[Dr Strangelove]

Canals make the transfer of food more efficient by reducing the time required to get the harvested food to market, therefore reducing spoilage. Additionally barges can transport larger quantities of food. This effectively translates into more food available for the cities.

[Darkknight]

Was it just me or did I read a review that said something about a wonder being able to build a canal. That was before the civ3 info flood though so it may be wrong.

[Cyclotron]

Reactivating character...
Bringing apolyton topic memory up to date...
Logging in... done.

Well, I have returned to again join the unending Apolyton debates.

I'm wondering how a canal would be graphically represented. It obviously can't be a river square, as some have suggested, because with rivers between tiles you couldn't put a ship unit on one. Is a canal then an ocean tile? I don't think so, because this would mean land units could not cross it. The only alternative seems to be a special improvement that allows both ships and land units to enter the tile. Graphically, it would connect to the nearest ocean just like a Civ2 river tile.

I am fairly certain from what I have heard that the canal will be a wonder. So basically, how I envision it, building the canal wonder will allow you to place this tile improvement at any square adjacent to water and in the city radius of the city you built the wonder in.

[JellyDonut]

Originally posted by cyclotron7

I'm wondering how a canal would be graphically represented.

I envision it as something thicker than a river but not an ocean square. Perhaps it could have concrete sides or something to show it's a canal. It definitely shouldn't be a tile improvement as rivers are now on tile borders (see the screenshots), therefore canals should be, too.

Canals, in my opinion, should allow naval units to pass through and allow any cities on it to produce facilities buildable only by coastal cities. I'm not sure how trade works in Civ3, so I can't really speculate much on that issue.

I would also like to point out that ancient who lives in Rochester, NY doesn't know how to spell the "Erie Canal"

[Jonny]

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It definitely shouldn't be a tile improvement as rivers are now on tile borders (see the screenshots), therefore canals should be, too.

Perhaps canals should offer the same benefits as rivers. If you did that idea, adding a canal where a river is would not add more resources, but turn the river into a canal, so you got the ship movement capability.

Also, if rivers are on tile borders, how will units move along them and where will their extra trade be?

[N35t0r]

of course, any hills or mountains would requre the development of locks...

and they would cost a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to build...

[Rasputin]

rivers along tile edges is not in keeping with the game concepts of movement improvemnts and trade bonus..

Canals should only be allowed to built from ocean to a city providng it isnt longer than maybe two squares...

[JellyDonut]

The rivers may have been moved to tile edges for the purpose of borders, i.e. your border's expansion may be hindered by rivers. Movement with rivers may work in a variety of ways. Here are some possibilities:

1) Your movement is increased on any tile that borders a river.
2) A certain technology needs to be researched in order to get movement advantage.
3) Rivers provide no movement advantage.
4) Rivers provide no movement advantage and a bridge is required to cross one (except for some special units?)

Trade bonus could also work in a variety of ways:

1) Cities with a river within their borders get trade bonus.
2) Tiles that border a river create trade bonus.
3) Trade works in such a different manner that in October we will look back on this post and laugh.

[seer_98]

In a way you can already build canals. If you have two masses of water only separated by one square of land. Build a city there. You just made a canal that ships can cross. Even if the land bridge is a little thicker if there's some water you can create a passage (E.G.

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[Mahdimael]

I agree with seer on this one. It may not be hyper-realistic, but it does add the idea of the canal as a resource. Whoever controls the city controls the canal.

[Sabre2th]

Canals might be a nice addition, but I think they should be secondary to gameplay+AI, graphics, diplomacy, etc.....

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by Mahdimael
I agree with seer on this one. It may not be hyper-realistic, but it does add the idea of the canal as a resource. Whoever controls the city controls the canal.

The city-as-a-bridge idea has been around since Civ 1, and it was even possible to form a chain of them in Civ1 to step your navy across wider landmasses because founding cities adjacent to each other was allowed.

Some of us want big canals/waterways like the Suez, Great Lakes etc and it looks like we may get one (but only one) via a wonder. So we can have your navy using the Suez or the Great Lakes but not both.

Others want a canal tile improvement to represent the small manmade waterways that were very important means of transport and trade before the proliferation of the railroad. Nothing seems intended to cover that and it may be that Firaxis have rejected it on KISS grounds since roads already carry infinite resources infinite distances in the current model.