new wonder/tech

[Juggernaut]

i think a GREAT renessaince tech would be the LIBERALISM. it would :

- provide more happiness, science, and money.
- spread to to other countries. causing civs with monarchy and despotism unhappy.
- allow the construction of JOHN LOCKE`S COMMON SENSE, which would be an equality to the Adam Smith wonder. JOHN LOCKE`S COMMON SENSE would make increase trade payoff by 150%. and make it harder to switch to nationalism later in the game. this will cause the player to at this point choose a line for the rest of the game
- allow the construction of PRINTING PRESSES. increases science in a city with 150%

[ancient]

thats dumb; make a scenerio if you want it

[Juggernaut]

well, since liberalism is one of the most influencal economic systems ever made, and the thought behind USA´s birth, it´s unaccurate to consider it dumb.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by uncle_funk
well, since liberalism is one of the most influencal economic systems ever made, and the thought behind USA´s birth, it´s unaccurate to consider it dumb.

precisely the reason why it is

no but really, should it also imply increased mortality rate, increased polution?

[Juggernaut]

dunno about mortality, why should it?

increased polution, why not.

it must reflect reality all the time, that´s what´s make it fun.

[KrazyHorse]

Hmmm...the invention of the printing press is part of what led to the growth of "Liberalism" as you put it, not the other way around.

[Juggernaut]

i didn´t mean the printing presses technically, i meant that the freedom of speech and expressing your opinions, were encouraged by the revolutional ideas of liberalism in the 16th century. and to symbolize this the improvement could be a printing press.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by uncle_funk
dunno about mortality, why should it?

increased polution, why not.

it must reflect reality all the time, that´s what´s make it fun.

well, how about laissez faire economy and its coal mines for minors?

plus, liberal sprinkling of colonies over the world, 'ethnically cleansing' indigenous population? exterminating herds of buffalos? you name it, they did it...

[Juggernaut]

well, was it better when they had to pay high taxes from which themselves didn´t get some benefits at all? and didn´t even had the right to vote, but were gonna pay taxes?

besides, liberalism isn´t just about US. take french revolution for example. part of their courage come from the american independence.

what colonies have to do with liberalism is beyond my understanding, the liberalism made them become more than colonies.

besides, this isn´t a matter of morality and "good or bad". it´s a matter of important events in modern history, and which should be picked out and translated to Civ. if nationalism is in, i think the liberalism should. for the sake of balance.

[SerapisIV]

I think people are mistaking the liberalism of today with the 1700s liberalism. Republicans and Democrats today are both very liberal by the original liberalism standards. The fact that neither wants a monarchy says as much without getting into details

[KrazyHorse]

I don't know if anybody here made that mistake.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by uncle_funk
they had to pay high taxes from which themselves didn´t get some benefits at all? and didn´t even had the right to vote, but were gonna pay taxes?

If your talking about the US before independence you have been misguided by exaggeration. Many could vote, and they paid less taxes than the average British citizen.


On the game side of it, I agre with KrazyHorse, I think liberalism is more a consequence than a cause for change. The fact that the printing press was around led to greater scientific thought and the exchange of ideas. Consider the impact that has on the game mechanics as the "Age of Liberalism".

For the same reason I don't like Industrial Revolution as a tech. I would rather have it called something less broad.

[Haphazard]

I just like the idea of common sense being a wonder of the world...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Big Crunch
For the same reason I don't like Industrial Revolution as a tech. I would rather have it called something less broad.

Yeah...the Industrial Revolution was a consequence of technology, not a technology itself. What about Division of Labour as a tech? Requires Railroads and Banking like in Civ2.

[Juggernaut]

well, it may be a consequence, but one with great impact. and one of such historic importance it should be implemented in Civ III IMMEDIATELY!