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  • #1

    Randomizing Various Aspects

    In order to increase gameplay and replayability, many of the announced Civ aspects should have options to randomize them. Here are two that come to mind:

    1) Randomize assignment of Civ-specific units

    Instead of Civ-specific units being pre-destined for a certain Civ, it could be randomly assigned. Thus instead of the Romans being pre-destined to build Legions, it would not be known until that Civ develops Iron Working whether they also develop this expertise. For example, you are the Persians and you have just discovered Iron Working. During that same turn, a message could come up saying :
    "With the discovery of Iron Working, our military experts have developed the ability to produce the unique, fearsome Legion units!"

    Yes, I realize that perhaps a better solution might be using minor techs or wonders so that a Civ can consciously strive for that ability (just like for the Wonders now).

    However, this "randomize Civ-specific units" is still better than the "pre-destined" implementation and if it exists I would definitely use Civ-specific units. (I would not now use them in the current "pre-destined" form.) Besides sometimes such expertise historically has been randomnly arrived at rather than consciously strived for! Easy to implement and vastly improves on the current pre-destined Civ-specific model.


    2) Randomize assignment of AI personalities (at the beginning of the game and during the game)

    Instead of the AI personalities being fixed and predictable for a particular leader throughout time, let's have a template of various personalities and let's have the option of randomly assigning these personalities to the various AI leaders. Its kind of stupid that I know that I need to go after the Russians early because I know ahead of time that Stalin is militaristic and expansionist. But if there were no way of knowing except in the course of monitoring their behaviour, then that is much better!

    Furthermore, everytime an AI Civ changes govt types, it should randomly assign a new personality from the available templates. (which doesn't have to exclude the old personality).

    This adds to gameplay because of added unpredictability!

    The inclusion of these options would definitely improve gameplay and replayability and I hope that Firaxis has implemented them as they should be easy to include!
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  • #2
    1) Randomize assignment of Civ-specific units
    I like this idea very much. This might be the only way that I'd actually play with them outside of the first game (Firaxis has stated that there will be an option to turn them off).

    2) Randomize assignment of AI personalities (at the beginning of the game and during the game)
    This will not only add great diversity to the game but it will also add a new challenge each game. I can't even play with the Mongols in Civ2 because every time I do they take over all the weak Civs early so by the end of the game there are only about 3 civs that are good including myself.

    Overall those are two very good ideas.
    However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

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    • #3
      Hmmm...

      Looks like other than TechWins, no one else seems to care for these options, one way or the other.

      The key though is that these should be options. Those who do not want randomly assigned Civ-specific units or randomly assigned AI personalities can have these turned off.

      Personally I like these random options and would probably enable them almost all the time, if these were available. It somewhat takes away from gameplay to have such aspects be known beforehand and therefore be completely predictable. (which is why I completely oppose the current method of pre-destined Civ-specific units.)

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      • #4
        Looks like other than TechWins, no one else seems to care for these options, one way or the other.
        I know how you feel I do threads all the time, such as Alliances, A Special Something, Importance To Borders, etc..., that hardly get any replies at all but they do have some good ideas in them.

        I really think that those two options will help out the gameplay greatly. I would imagine Civ3 would at least have a randomize civ-specific units option.
        However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

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        • #5
          I don't know...If we're going to change civ-specific units, then I'd rather change them in the direction of making it possible for any civ to choose to get any civ-specific unit in-game (perhaps with a technology which can be acquired only once).
          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
          Stadtluft Macht Frei
          Killing it is the new killing it
          Ultima Ratio Regum

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          • #6
            as i prefr MP over SP . civ specific units and AI personalities is a waste of time,,
            GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71

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            • #7
              1) Randomize assignment of Civ-specific units
              Hey Mikey! He likes it!

              And so do I. I think this is a great idea. Although I dont even like the idea of civ-specific units, if they are going to stick this to us, then at least make an option to make it random. Civ3 is about Alternate History.

              "Mr. Chambers! Don't get on that ship! We've mastered the book, To Serve Man.... it - its a cook book!"

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              • #8
                I'm holding out for an altogether more intelligent implementation of unique advantages but randomisation would be better than nothing. On the whole I'd probably just turn them off.

                If the AI comes with differing 'flavours' to make countries behave differently then I would certainly be in favour of randomisation. I'd rather that they produce one AI that plays extremely capably in whatever situation it finds itself than mess around trying to get them to be different and reduce their effectiveness.
                To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
                H.Poincaré

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                • #9
                  Hey Mikey! He likes it!
                  What are you talking about?
                  However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Randomizing the AI Personalities is a good idea- because no civ is predisposed to anything in civ when a human player can make them do what (s)he wants it to do.

                    Random civ-specific units- I suppose this is a good idea, but I would rather do without civ-specific units.
                    -->Visit CGN!
                    -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TechWins


                      What are you talking about?
                      Mikey is a ficticious character that does not like anything. There are many commercials on television about this 'Mikey'. The most recent was on a commercial for Rice Chex breakfast cereal. It had two people wondering about this new cereal. Neither of the people wanted to actually try it. So they give it to a third person (who you cant see at first)... the third person trys it, and really likes it. The third person in Mikey. Then the other two say, "He likes it! Hey Mikey!" "Mikey Doesnt like anything"... the commercial switches the catch phrase around... but its still the same. I guess Arizonians don't have a Mikey?
                      Last edited by To_Serve_Man; July 5, 2001, 19:23.
                      "Mr. Chambers! Don't get on that ship! We've mastered the book, To Serve Man.... it - its a cook book!"

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        The Mikey from Life cereal. I see.
                        However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          It was Life cereal? well whatever, you get it now...
                          "Mr. Chambers! Don't get on that ship! We've mastered the book, To Serve Man.... it - its a cook book!"

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Yeah, I do get it now.

                            With the randomizing of AI personalities, I think would give you more games with that "one more turn" feeling.

                            I'd rather that they produce one AI that plays extremely capably in whatever situation it finds itself than mess around trying to get them to be different and reduce their effectiveness.
                            Another thing you should be able to do with AI personalities is choose which ones you want to include. Meaning that if you really like the English's personality and you hate the Zulus personality you should be able to have the English personality for the Zulus and the English. This would still be able to work under randomizing AI personalities. All you would do is select how many personalities you want, that would cover all the civs that will be in the game (even if you select a personality twice). Then those personalities would be randomized over all the civs.
                            However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              I don't like your suggestions. What should really be done is to balance the races. Your solution is simply a short-cut to avoid balancing them. If everything is random, why even have races? Why not just have one civilization that has tons of options?

                              The real problem with online games is when everyone starts doing the same thing. I guess this is why you want randomized things. This way at least everyone won't pick the same race. Even then, this doesn't solve anything IMO. If one strategy or tactic is dominating then everyone would go for that anyway. So the only real solution is to balance things properly. Balancing strategy games is tough (just like RPG games) but if online success is to be achieved balance is paramount. Believe it or not, having unique civs will actually improve game replayability as long as it is balanced.



                              KoalaBear33

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