I think a progressive change is best.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Polypheus,
When I said that MP allowance should be increased, I didn't mean by much (2-3MP's at most), additionally, I feel that the limitation to movement should be range. That is, a unit can only move out to a limited range beyond their nations borders. Range would be partly based on how much relative supply the unit might need (eg. a foot-soldier would have a greater range than cavalry) Explorers and Spec-op units would have the greatest range, followed by settlers, followed again by ordinary military units. The only way to expand your range would be to either 1) Expand your borders
2) Capture an enemy city with, at minimum, a working granary (and a barracks for military units)
3) Building some sort of supply system (Supply depots connected to your empire by roads!)
I also feel that, in order to balance things out, building improvements should cost MP's, but the improvements are built immediately (no more 50 year farms!!!). This way, if a military unit wants to build a supply depot to extend its range, it would need to sacrifice the bulk of its movement to do so! Additionally, it would allow easier movements of your units "Within" your empire!

I would also like to point out that, if this system were to be used, I feel it would allow you to more accurately reflect the size of the Empires of Rome and Alexander the Great!
Anyway just a thought. Tell me what you think.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
What was very good 6 years ago is out of standard now, no matter how much you can modify the original model: you must start from scratch, with a new design.

No way, how long should we have to wait if all Programs were written from scratch in machine code. We would probably still be stuck with DOS.

And don't tell me Intel should begin with reinventing the transistor every time they shall make a new Processor. Or if you had to buy a new electric system every time you buy a new electric machine, as the companies keep changing the design of the plugs, and the Voltage.

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by TechWins
Well, here's one the Ford Mustang. Yeah it has changed a lot from the first model till now, but if you look at the changes from year to year there aren't many differences just improvements each year which has lead to the newest model. It's like Civ if you look at the changes from Civ to Civ2 you can find some but not a lot it's same way with Civ2 to Civ3. If you look at the differences between Civ to Civ3 you can find many.

If a new model of civ came out every 18 months then no-one would be expecting lots of big improvements. On the basis that this version is going to be the first in nearly a decade it needs to do more than just polish up a game which has been surpassed in many ways in the interim. Particularly if another version will not be made for a long time to come, if ever.

[Ralf]

Re: I think a progressive change is best.

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I think I mentioned this in another thread. Too many people are expecting a complete and utter overhaul of Civ2. But the changes from Civ to Civ2 were subtle, and included more of an extension of the game, not a change of the central game mechanisms. And improvements on user interface and graphics. So what are people expecting either? Are people just being malcontents, and are never going to be happy with what they get? If they change and mess with it too much, you will get another CtP, and there are a lot of people who don't want that. Subtle, well calculated changes are in order, ie, combat system, trade, diplomacy, etc. Not basic fundamentals of the game.

Well, I think that Civ-3 is promised to be a much bigger update, compared with Civ-2, then Civ-2 ever was compared with Civ-1. Anyway I think I understand that you mean. Half-life 2 cant look & play like a supposed Thief-3 and vice versa. Game-developers just cant make such wild jumps, without changing the title and marketing it as a completely different game.

The same way, Firaxis cant make Civ-3 look & play like a supposed CTP-3, or EU-2. Civ is Civ - and Civ only. They must stay true to the basic "magic formula", and develop/rehash the game further with that in mind.

[Provost Harrison]

Absolutely Ralf. Yeah, I know this looks like a considerably larger leap than between civ and civ2. But it is the nature of the leap that is the concern. They have learned from SMAC, they have had time to think about it and analyse the type of changes that make the game better and not detract from the gameplay. I think this game is in capable hands, at least in terms of gameplay anyway. Trust Sid, that is all I have to say

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Gramphos

No way, how long should we have to wait if all Programs were written from scratch in machine code. We would probably still be stuck with DOS.

And don't tell me Intel should begin with reinventing the transistor every time they shall make a new Processor. Or if you had to buy a new electric system every time you buy a new electric machine, as the companies keep changing the design of the plugs, and the Voltage.

Sorry?

Was it my bad english or are you misundertanding me?

When a new game need the same amount of job of reinventing the transistor?

Now, we are well aware of code library, but they are mostly for the need of standard and quick interface between the new program and the Operating System (and related services).

Some programs make similar use of graphic engine (e.g. quake engine was the common ground of plenty of first person/third person shooters).

Sequels and add-on often reuse most of the previus release code.

But completely new games exist: don't let Firaxis habit let you think different (and wrong)

Don't be fooled by some resemblance some products have, for sake of backward compatibility or reduced learning time using similar user interface and commands.

A company can (and sometime must) try a different, fresh approach. The modern history is full of example of companies disappeared because of their "resting on the laurel" approach.
If the best know design team for TBS can't so that, so who?

Originally posted by Grumbold
If a new model of civ came out every 18 months then no-one would be expecting lots of big improvements. On the basis that this version is going to be the first in nearly a decade it needs to do more than just polish up a game which has been surpassed in many ways in the interim. Particularly if another version will not be made for a long time to come, if ever.

Exactly! A years of development can be more than enough for every minor improvement. Three years of work to get a 2.5 version... well, I sincerely hope I'm dead wrong, and the game will end as a masterpiece.
Once more, it'll be very interesting to know how different was Civ III into early -Brian Reynolds' team- design.

The only hint I have is that Brian left because he wants truly innovative game ....

The incredible info that Sid wandered around Dino concept without a proper target (they tried any concept, from RTS to Cards!), ending with a sudden STOP, probably mean something

[Urban Ranger]

Sure, Civ 3 should be evolutionary instread of revolutionary, but methinks the evolution step is too small. I would much prefer that Firaxis left a Unit Workshop in the game, or at least have something like the army raising in Europa Univeralis for pre-Modern Age armies.

E3 previewers notwithstanding, Civ 3 should be a smash hit when released. Eye candies are all fine and dandy, but a large segment of gamers are forgotten by the lastest gee-whiz pushers, namely those with older computers.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
Was it my bad english or are you misundertanding me?

I think I know what you wanted to say, but I liked to inform you that you need to have some "standard" components to make a product.

...and you can't start from Scratch unless you've invented paper.

[Alexander's Horse]

provost is right for once

[Rasputin]

I think Civ3 , from everything i have read and seen so far, will be vastly differnet from Civ 2... whilst not going as far as smoe would like it to go, it shoudl stil lbe a good game, provising the MP side works !!!

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
provost is right for once

Watch it sunshine And don't I deserve the honour of a capital letter?

[Rasputin]

when you get to deity level you can get a capital P