The instant return of troops paradox

[Bereta_Eder]

One of the things that worked fine in Civ 2 but was totaly unrealistic was the option to instantly have your troops return to the closest city if another civ demanded you to and you accepted.

I don't think this created any problems in the balance of the game. Actually it was pretty exploitable too in a lot of circumstances.

But I can't help feeling that this sudden and immideate return of troops is completely absurd.

Do you think it should be changed in civ 3?

[Kevin Ar18]

How about the comp automatically sets a route back to your territory if you agree to withdraw troops.

As turns go by you will not have control over those units till they return to your territory.

I tell you what, you'd be a whole lot more careful about doing that.


Of course you should be able to cancel their path back, thus threating to break your treaty.

[tniem]

Welcome back paiktas, glad the lag didn't keep you from posting on the civ forums here.

I concur on this issue. Unrealistic. With new diplomacy options and the proposal from Kevin, it can easily be solved.

[Dauphin]

Its no more ridiculous than the airlift order which could transport a unit half-way round the globe in one turn. Are they getting rid of that too?

If you have an automatic path, the units shouldn't be sent all the way home, just out of the other civs territory.

[Inverse Icarus]

persoanlly, i think the airlift thing was a good thing.

it could only be once from a city each turn, so you needed like 5 on your mainland, and 5 on the island.

and fighters in the way could shoot them down.

[Bereta_Eder]

At least the airlift has some sort of justification =airplanes (doh!)

[Bereta_Eder]

I too like Kevin's idea. I think that was what was intented to be done by the creators but they didn't manage or didn't have the time to implement it.

There are some points where it could be difficult tho. An island where all squares are city squares of another civ... If transport ships come intoplay I think it can be difficult, but again this is the only realistic way.

[Inverse Icarus]

bah, why would you backoff enemy territory, or pece tratied terrirory for that matter?

diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" until you can find a big enough rock.

[Kevin Ar18]

Originally posted by Big Crunch
Its no more ridiculous than the airlift order which could transport a unit half-way round the globe in one turn. Are they getting rid of that too?

If you have an automatic path, the units shouldn't be sent all the way home, just out of the other civs territory.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Units should be sent to the nearest place outside enemy territory.

There are some points where it could be difficult tho. An island where all squares are city squares of another civ...

That's a good point. I had not thought of that. I don't have any good solution for this, but for one if you KNOW that that island it completely controlled by someone else then the comp should get even madder for dropping a unit on their island for no reason. This would make the comp very suspicious of you (wouldn't it make you suspicious?)

The only way that I can see to take care of it is that you must pick a transport and it automatically picks up the unit, then returns control to you.
But what if you have no more ships? I'm not sure... Maybe the comp should be allowed to capture the unit and you have to negotiate to get it back?
It seems this idea does have some flaws.

[colossus]

I think the solution would be simpler if we scrap the idea altogether.

How about this:
A civ can make a demand to B civ that all unallied military units leave their territory within 2(maybe 3) turns. After 2 turns, if there are still B civ's armies inside A's territory, A civ automatically declare war without suffering diplomatic/cultural penalty. But how to retreat those units is B's matter. As a last resort, B may be forced to disband them if unable to ship them away.

[Cyclotron]

Colossus has a good idea. A unit should be immediatly put on a "go" command out of the city radius. The unit will find the fastest way out, but if several tiles tie for the closest it will go towards friendly troops or the most easily defensible terrain (Mountains, hills, forests, etc.). After 4 rounds, if this has not been achieved (either by interposing enemy units or no place to go) the offending unit will be disbanded.

[tmarcl]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
Colossus has a good idea. A unit should be immediatly put on a "go" command out of the city radius. The unit will find the fastest way out, but if several tiles tie for the closest it will go towards friendly troops or the most easily defensible terrain (Mountains, hills, forests, etc.). After 4 rounds, if this has not been achieved (either by interposing enemy units or no place to go) the offending unit will be disbanded.

I wouldn't want it to be automatically disbanded. Maybe returned to your control, though. After 4 turns, I may change my mind about leaving.

Marc

[Kc7mxo]

So, are the chinese requiring us to disband our airplane before they return it to us? heh.

[Bereta_Eder]

I like the idea.

You are given a time frame in which you must comply. How you do that it's your problem but if you don't comply and the deadline ellapses you have committed an act of war that also must reduce your reputation.

Very good idea

[tniem]

Originally posted by colossus
I think the solution would be simpler if we scrap the idea altogether.

How about this:
A civ can make a demand to B civ that all unallied military units leave their territory within 2(maybe 3) turns. After 2 turns, if there are still B civ's armies inside A's territory, A civ automatically declare war without suffering diplomatic/cultural penalty. But how to retreat those units is B's matter. As a last resort, B may be forced to disband them if unable to ship them away.

That or you could work some type of diplomatic negotiation where you can keep your unit in their territory in exchange for payment or something for an extra number of turns before you can leave the territory. I like the idea colossus.