Which of the following 10 Civs NOT included in Civ II do you most want in Civ III?

[Arator]

I want them all. LOL.

[El hidalgo]

I want them all, too! Well, once we know who's in and who's out we can start building custom civs. I'm sure we'll have at least as much flexibility as with Civ 2. I already have some city lists worked out, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

[BeBMan]

I can live without the Confederates and the Polynesians...

[Cyclotron]

Although the Dutch were very important, I always wanted to be the Polynesians.

[Atahualpa]

Actually Confederates have never been a civ.
They were never accepted as an own nation.

Austria I say!

I have said it so often now, but its hopeless. In fact I dont care anymore.

Ata

[Bereta_Eder]

A few comments:

Italians are covered my the romans as far as I am concerned.

Austro-Hungarians. Hungarians might have a problem that you have put them together with the Austrains. A hungarian acquintance of mine never stops telling me how opressed the hungarians were under austrian rule.

Which Arabs? Everybody sais Arabs but which ones? It's like saying «Europeans» I think.

Other than that that's a nice list I think.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

i voted for the Dutch, but now im having secnd thoughts. BTW there is a rumor that FIraxis is gonna include the Isrealites.

[Arator]

Originally posted by paiktis22
A few comments:

Italians are covered my the romans as far as I am concerned.

Yea, but the problem is with "Romans" all the great Italian cities have Latin names instead of their Medieval/Modern equivalents. Perhaps Firaxis could give us a Roman/Italian toggle on that great Civ.

Similarly, perhaps with the "Greeks", they could give us a Greek/Byzantine toggle.

Austro-Hungarians. Hungarians might have a problem that you have put them together with the Austrains. A hungarian acquintance of mine never stops telling me how opressed the hungarians were under austrian rule.

Even so, inclusion of Austro-Hungarians would give us all the great cities of central Europe incompassed by the Austro-Hungarian Empire -- Vienna, Budapest, Prague, Belgrade, etc. This is much better than just Austria.

Which Arabs? Everybody sais Arabs but which ones? It's like saying «Europeans» I think.

The answer is: ALL OF THEM. The Arabs swept through the Middle East and North Africa all the way to Spain. That is the Arab world. Any of the cities in that area should be fair game, incliuding Casablanca, Algiers, Tunis, Tripoli, Cairo, Bagdad, Mecca, Medina, Damascus, Amman, Riyahd, Kuwait, Muskat, Oman, etc.

[Andreiguy]

Israel has been around for a whopping 52 years. How about not.
I think Arabs; they were a major player in world civilization, were the most advanced at one time, and should definetaly be included.

P.S. Confederates? Rigghtt....they really played a huge role in world civilization!

[Arator]

Assuming the Civ II 21 + the 10 above are included, which should be #32:

Should it be:

Byzantines?
Danes?
Swedes?
Poles?
Ethiopians?
Mayans?
Scandinavians (Danes, Norwegians, Swedes, Fins combined)?

Since the Byzantines are covered by the Greeks; the Poles by the Russians, Germans, and Austro-Hungarians; the Mayans by the Aztecs (sort of), I tend to prefer:

Scandinavians!

[Arator]

Originally posted by Andreiguy
Israel has been around for a whopping 52 years. How about not.

Uh, try 3500 years. They are both an Ancient and Modern civ, with great civilizational influence. They should be included.

I think Arabs; they were a major player in world civilization, were the most advanced at one time, and should definetaly be included.

Agreed.

P.S. Confederates? Rigghtt....they really played a huge role in world civilization!

The Confederate South may have lost their bid for national independence, but they were a major 250+year old civ in the Americas, distinct from the Yankee North (Americans). I think they ought to be included

[Sava]

How about having certain Civilizations available in the early part of the game and then as revolutions occur and such, civ's would change their name, break into different civs, etc.

The Italians, Spanish, Greeks, French, English, and most Germanic tribes were all part of the Roman Empire at one time.

The Dutch spawned from Viking and Germanic tribes. The current "Arab" world is the result of hundreds of different civilizations growing and changing.

Civilization is all about change. To be realistic, you need to include every nationality in the world, past and present. And code through different events how each civ would appear. Maybe when the Romans die, their Empire would split into the Franks, Hispans, and Italians. Later, they would change their names to the French, Spanish, etc. Or perhaps when a city revolts and becomes independent, then a new civ is created. (Revolutionary WAR, hello people the UNITED STATES). I can't believe Sid wouldn't include such an idea in the first civilization.

[ancient]

ahem! incans and arabs were included!

instant genuine arabs in civ2

its simple and can be done for both arabs and incans

Find and delete

@LEADERS
Caesar, Livia, 0, 1, 1, Romans, Roman, 0, 1, 1, 1, Dictator, Dictator, 2, Imperator, Imperatrix
Hammurabi, Ishtari, 0, 2, 0, Babylonians, Babylonian, -1, -1, 1,
Frederick, Maria Theresa, 0, 3, 3, Germans, German, 1, -1, 1, 4, Archbishop, Archbishop, 6, Chancellor, Chancellor
Ramesses, Cleopatra, 1, 4, 0, Egyptians, Egyptian, 0, 0, 1, 1, Pharaoh, Pharaoh, 2, Great Pharaoh, Great Pharaoh
Abe Lincoln, E. Roosevelt, 0, 5, 1, Americans, American, -1, 0, 1, 4, Reverend, Reverend, 5, Speaker, Speaker
Alexander, Hippolyta, 1, 6, 1, Greeks, Greek, 0, 1, -1, 6, Prime Minister, Prime Minister
Mohandas Gandhi,Indira Gandhi, 0, 7, 2, Indians, Indian, -1, -1, 0, 2, Maharaja, Maharaja,
Lenin, Catherine the Great, 1, 1, 3, Russians, Russian, 1, 0, -1, 2, Czar, Czarina, 4, Patriarch, Matriarch
Shaka, Shakala, 0, 2, 0, Zulus, Zulu, 1, 0, 0,
Louis XIV, Joan of Arc, 0, 3, 3, French, French, 1, 1, 1, 4, Archbishop, Archbishop, 6, Premier, Premier
Montezuma, Nazca, 0, 4, 0, Aztecs, Aztec, 0, -1, 1,
Mao Tse Tung, Wu Zhao, 0, 5, 2, Chinese, Chinese, 0, 0, 1, 3, Chairman, Chairperson
Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, 1, 6, 3, English, English, 0, 1, 0, 4, Lord Protector, Lady Protector, 6, Prime Minister, Prime Minister
Genghis Khan, Bortei, 0, 7, 0, Mongols, Mongol, 1, 1, -1,
Cunobelin, Boadicea, 1, 1, 0, Celts, Celtic, -1, 1, 0, 4, Druid, Druid
Tokugawa, Amaterasu, 0, 2, 2, Japanese, Japanese, 1, -1, -1, 2, Shogun, Shogun, 6, Prime Minister, Prime Minister
Canute, Gunnhild, 1, 3, 3, Vikings, Viking, 1, 1, 0, 1, Warlord, Warlord
Philip II, Isabella, 1, 4, 3, Spanish, Spanish, -1, 1, -1, 4, Archbishop, Archbishop
Xerxes, Scheherezade, 0, 5, 0, Persians, Persian, 0, -1, 0, 2, Shah, Shah, 4, Ayatollah, Ayatollah
Hannibal, Dido, 0, 6, 1, Carthaginians, Carthaginian, 0, 0, -1,
Sitting Bull, Sacajawea, 0, 7, 0, Sioux, Sioux, 0, 0, 0, 1, Chief, Chief, 2, Great Chief, Great Chief
Saladin, ..., 0, 5, Arabs, Arab, 1, 0, 1, 4, Ayatollah, Ayatollah, 2, Sultan, Sultana
Atawallpa, ..., 0, 1, Incas, Inca, -1, 1, 1,

To play a game with arabs Replace with this

@LEADERS
Caesar, Livia, 0, 1, 1, Romans, Roman, 0, 1, 1, 1, Dictator, Dictator, 2, Imperator, Imperatrix
Saladin, ..., 0, 5, 1, Arabs, Arab, 1, 0, 1, 4,
Frederick, Maria Theresa, 0, 3, 3, Germans, German, 1, -1, 1, 4, Archbishop, Archbishop, 6, Chancellor, Chancellor
Ramesses, Cleopatra, 1, 4, 0, Egyptians, Egyptian, 0, 0, 1, 1, Pharaoh, Pharaoh, 2, Great Pharaoh, Great Pharaoh
Abe Lincoln, E. Roosevelt, 0, 5, 1, Americans, American, -1, 0, 1, 4, Reverend, Reverend, 5, Speaker, Speaker
Alexander, Hippolyta, 1, 6, 1, Greeks, Greek, 0, 1, -1, 6, Prime Minister, Prime Minister
Mohandas Gandhi,Indira Gandhi, 0, 7, 2, Indians, Indian, -1, -1, 0, 2, Maharaja, Maharaja,
Lenin, Catherine the Great, 1, 1, 3, Russians, Russian, 1, 0, -1, 2, Czar, Czarina, 4, Patriarch, Matriarch
Shaka, Shakala, 0, 2, 0, Zulus, Zulu, 1, 0, 0,
Louis XIV, Joan of Arc, 0, 3, 3, French, French, 1, 1, 1, 4, Archbishop, Archbishop, 6, Premier, Premier
Montezuma, Nazca, 0, 4, 0, Aztecs, Aztec, 0, -1, 1,
Mao Tse Tung, Wu Zhao, 0, 5, 2, Chinese, Chinese, 0, 0, 1, 3, Chairman, Chairperson
Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, 1, 6, 3, English, English, 0, 1, 0, 4, Lord Protector, Lady Protector, 6, Prime Minister, Prime Minister
Genghis Khan, Bortei, 0, 7, 0, Mongols, Mongol, 1, 1, -1,
Cunobelin, Boadicea, 1, 1, 0, Celts, Celtic, -1, 1, 0, 4, Druid, Druid
Tokugawa, Amaterasu, 0, 2, 2, Japanese, Japanese, 1, -1, -1, 2, Shogun, Shogun, 6, Prime Minister, Prime Minister
Canute, Gunnhild, 1, 3, 3, Vikings, Viking, 1, 1, 0, 1, Warlord, Warlord
Philip II, Isabella, 1, 4, 3, Spanish, Spanish, -1, 1, -1, 4, Archbishop, Archbishop
Xerxes, Scheherezade, 0, 5, 0, Persians, Persian, 0, -1, 0, 2, Shah, Shah, 4, Ayatollah, Ayatollah
Hannibal, Dido, 0, 6, 1, Carthaginians, Carthaginian, 0, 0, -1,
Sitting Bull, Sacajawea, 0, 7, 0, Sioux, Sioux, 0, 0, 0, 1, Chief, Chief, 2, Great Chief, Great Chief
Atawallpa, ..., 0, 1, Incas, Inca, -1, 1, 1,


To make incans copy incans to where aztecs were and aztecs to where incans were..

they both are diesigned into the game and can easily included

good enough well try it

[Lung]

For a civ to be included, it must have been a substantial empire at some stage. Therefore, the confederates are out. For that matter, why are the Americans in? As the world's current only superpower, and the biggest influence of the 20th century, they have a good argument. However, the main reason is purely commercial. Who in the U.S will buy it if they're not included?

This is obviously the same reason why Firaxis is considering including the Confederates, and probably also the Israelis! The Iroquois are another civ that are there for commercial (and perhaps politically correct) reasons. Hey, Australia was included in CTP, so the reason was obvious.

As for the arabs, that's why the Persians should be included. The Arabs are basically a religious group, so shouldn't be included. Sure, Islam was a cultural empire which spread across a large chunk of the world in a short period of time, but so did christianity and Budhism. Religious boundaries are ambiguous, but empire boundaries are generally not. If you have arabs, then how do you separate Germans from British from French??

Actually, as silly as it first seemed to me, the Polynesians do count, as they populated thousand of islands across the entire Pacific, and they weren't always necessarily peaceful occupance of uninhabited islands, either. Just because anthropological records are minimal, doesn't mean they weren't an empire.

[ancient]

youd be suprised how many americans bought cossacks...